Evangelicals vs. Jehovah's Witnesses

[Elijah John]

Evangelicals often call Jehovah's Witnesses, a "cult" and not Christian.

Jehovah's Witnesses, seem to consider Roman Catholics, Protestants, Eastern Orthodox etc, "not-Christian" (JWs please correct me if I'm wrong on this)

Question for debate, why can't all of these groups rightly be considered "Christian"?

And part two of this OP question is directed primarily to Evangelicals, why don't you consider JWs to be Christian?

[Fellowchristian]

[Replying to post 2 by JehovahsWitness]

The next verse Romans 14:9 explains who is Lord mentioned in the previous verse.
"For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living."
If YW people believe Jesus Christ is Jehovah, then their claim is right that they are Christians.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 2 by JehovahsWitness]

The next verse Romans 14:9 explains who is Lord mentioned in the previous verse.
"For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living."
If YW people believe Jesus Christ is Jehovah, then their claim is right that they are Christians.

Jesus Christ cannot be Jehovah, because Jehovah is the Father, to whom Christ prayed. He also indicated that it is a fact that he and Jehovah are two distinct individuals when he quoted Isaiah 61 during his address to the synagogue at Luke 4:17-21. Young's Literal Translation renders Isaiah 61 as:

"The Spirit of the Lord Jehovah is on me [Christ], because Jehovah did anoint me to proclaim tidings to the humble, He sent me to bind the broken of heart, to proclaim to captives liberty, and to bound ones an opening of bands." (Isaiah 61:1)


The writer of Psalm 110 also indicated that Jehovah and the Messiah are two distinct persons:

"The affirmation of Jehovah to my Lord [the Messiah]: Sit at my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool." (Psalm 110:1, Young's Literal Translation)

Does Jehovah sit at His own right hand?

[Fellowchristian]

[Replying to post 2 by JehovahsWitness]

The next verse Romans 14:9 explains who is Lord mentioned in the previous verse.
"For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living."
If YW people believe Jesus Christ is Jehovah, then their claim is right that they are Christians.

Jesus Christ cannot be Jehovah, because Jehovah is the Father, to whom Christ prayed.

The point you raised, I shall answer later.
I am asking how the Lord mentioned in Roman 14:8 and 14:9 cannot be the same person.
If JW believes Lord in 14:8 is Jehovah, why he/they not accepting Lord mentioned in vs 9 also Jehovah.
Hope my question is clear.

[tigger2]

Fellowchristian wrote:

The point you raised, I shall answer later.
I am asking how the Lord mentioned in Roman 14:8 and 14:9 cannot be the same person.
If JW believes Lord in 14:8 is Jehovah, why he/they not accepting Lord mentioned in vs 9 also Jehovah.
Hope my question is clear.

The word in 14:9 is not kurios ('Lord') but κυ�ιε�σῃ.

κυ�ιε�σῃ Definition:
to be lord over, to be possessed of, mastery over.

Substituting "Jehovah" here does not fit. "that he might be Jehovah over the dead and the living." "Lord over" makes much more sense.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 2 by JehovahsWitness]

The next verse Romans 14:9 explains who is Lord mentioned in the previous verse.
"For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living."
If YW people believe Jesus Christ is Jehovah, then their claim is right that they are Christians.

Jesus Christ cannot be Jehovah, because Jehovah is the Father, to whom Christ prayed.

The point you raised, I shall answer later.
I am asking how the Lord mentioned in Roman 14:8 and 14:9 cannot be the same person.
If JW believes Lord in 14:8 is Jehovah, why he/they not accepting Lord mentioned in vs 9 also Jehovah.
Hope my question is clear.

Yes it is clear.

Firstly, Christ is directly alluded to in verse 9. "For this Christ both died and rose and lived again, the he might be Lord over both the dead and the living." (The Interlinear Bible/Hebrew, Greek & English) So Christ is definitely "the Lord" in this verse, as I see it.

Secondly, verse 8 is undoubtedly a reference to Psalm 146:2, which says:

"While I live I will praise Jehovah; while I have being I will sing praises to my God."
(The Interlinear Bible)

So both Jehovah and Jesus are mentioned in those verses in the letter to the Romans. That is not uncommon, but very frequent. Paul associates the two together often, and not as one Person but two. For example:

"God is faithful, by whom you were called into a sharing with his Son Jesus Christ our Lord." (I Corinthians 1:9)

Jehovah God AND his Son. This goes on throughout all of Paul's letters.

[Fellowchristian]

Fellowchristian wrote:

The point you raised, I shall answer later.
I am asking how the Lord mentioned in Roman 14:8 and 14:9 cannot be the same person.
If JW believes Lord in 14:8 is Jehovah, why he/they not accepting Lord mentioned in vs 9 also Jehovah.
Hope my question is clear.

The word in 14:9 is not kurios ('Lord') but κυ�ιε�σῃ.

κυ�ιε�σῃ Definition:
to be lord over, to be possessed of, mastery over.


Substituting "Jehovah" here does not fit. "that he might be Jehovah over the dead and the living." "Lord over" makes much more sense.

I am not arguing for the gramatical connotation, but if the person mentioned in vs 8 and vs 9 are not the same.

[JehovahsWitness]

I am not arguing for the gramatical connotation, but if the person mentioned in vs 8 and vs 9 are not the same.

The context indicates, no, verse 8 is speaking of God the Father (Jehovah) and verse 9 Christ Jesus.

In Romans chapter 14 Paul is arguing that Christians should not judge each other regarding each others diets. He allueds to the Mosaic law and points out in verse 3 that GOD has welcomed those that do not observe dietry restrictions.

ROMANS 14:6
Let not him that eats despise him that eats not; and let not him who eats not judge him that eats: for God has received him - KJV

Continuing his argumentation Paul alludes to the Psalms that whatever we do we do for God (Jehovah) - see onewithim's post above, and points out that even if faithful ones were to die, they still belong to God (Romans 14:8).

Paul concludes by pointing out that such victory over death is possible because Christ made it so through his own victory over death. (Romans 14:9). Verse 9 specifically mentions "Christ" and obviously since God cannot die and Paul points out that life if possible because this one died and came (back) to life, verse 9 is speaking not of JEHOVAH God but of JESUS Christ.

JW

[marakorpa]

[Replying to post 2 by JehovahsWitness]

There can only be one Truth. You may consider your belief the truth just as the JWs believe they have the Truth. So how do we consider which belief is really teaching the things that Gods Word advocates.

Christianity is not just a religion, it is a way of life. One should apply God's Word to oneself on a daily basis. It does not include idolatry, which comes in many forms, like hunger for money and worshiping the sense of power money may seem to bring, It means loving God, fearing god and practicing only godly things. 1Cor 6:9

There is a lot of pagan ritual in the celebrations of Xmas and Easter, Easter is , in fact, a name derived form a pagan goddess of old. Xmas is full of pagan rites and ritual and if you came across the celebration of Xmas, surely you would wonder how it ever got into any Christian ethic.

Being a Christian means knowing Jehovah, and praying to him "incessantly", as this is the only way to survive in the wicked world and to gain everlasting life on a paradise earth as Jehovah has promised his righteous and faithful followers.

Rather than me criticize the ones who believe that as long as you have some religion, you are a Christian, I suggest that you read the bible and see if you fulfill the requirements of that role. The JWs consider that all false religion is contained in the word Christendom.

The original plan for man to live on earth in paradise conditions has not been forsaken, it will happen and indications are that it will happen very soon.

From JW.org

Do you think that we will ever live in a paradise? Jehovah tells us: “I have purposed it, and I will also carry it out.� (Isaiah 46:9-11; 55:11) Yes, he will do what he has purposed, and nothing will stop him. Jehovah says that he created the earth for a reason. He “did not create it simply for nothing.� (Isaiah 45:18) He wants people to live all over the earth. What kind of people does God want to live here, and for how long? The Bible says: “The righteous [or, obedient] will possess the earth, and they will live forever on it.�—Psalm 37:29; Revelation 21:3, 4.

If you do not believe the above you might like to revise your thoughts on Christianity.

[marakorpa]

[Replying to post 285 by JehovahsWitness]


I am a bit surprised at the use of the JW.org Logo, it is under copyright and belongs to the Watchtower, Bible and Tract Society.

[hoghead1]

[Replying to post 286 by marakorpa]

I don't put any stock into anything the Watchtower Society has to say. I find it to be a largely anti-intellectual, anti-social cult that is simply in the business of demonizing those of us who are Trinitarians and Christian intellectuals. I also avoid using the term "Jehovah," as it represents a serious mistranslation of the Hebrew.