God's Actual Name

jgh7 · Post by **jgh7** » Thu Aug 11, 2016 12:12 pm

I've seen God called by different names. As much as I know, the consonants for his name are given in the OT, but the vowels are missing.

Does anyone here claim to know what the vowels are and thus the proper pronunciation of God's name. Or is it a mystery that will remain unknown?

Talishi · Post by **Talishi** » Wed Sep 14, 2016 9:35 pm

Monta wrote: "They were banished from the Garden so they could be saved. Had they stayed in the Garden they would have eaten the fruit of the tree of life and live forever in their fallen state."

Adam and Eve were said to be immortal and wouldn't need the Tree of Life. Then two seconds after they "fell" God needed to make emergency preparations to keep them away from it. Near as I can tell, God must like a challenge. Either that, or Moses needed a story editor big time.

Checkpoint · Post by **Checkpoint** » Wed Sep 14, 2016 10:43 pm

Talishi wrote:
Monta wrote: "They were banished from the Garden so they could be saved. Had they stayed in the Garden they would have eaten the fruit of the tree of life and live forever in their fallen state."

Adam and Eve were said to be immortal and wouldn't need the Tree of Life.

Who said that? It wasn't God, but a liar.

Then two seconds after they "fell" God needed to make emergency preparations to keep them away from it.
Showing the truth, that was the way to become immortal and they did need it because they were not immortal.

Near as I can tell, God must like a challenge. Either that, or Moses needed a story editor big time.
So you agree Moses was the writer, huh?

Talishi · Post by **Talishi** » Wed Sep 14, 2016 10:56 pm

Checkpoint wrote: Showing the truth, that was the way to become immortal and they did need it because they were not immortal.

If they were not immortal then they were already fallen from the git-go. What need of a savior then?

Checkpoint · Post by **Checkpoint** » Thu Sep 15, 2016 2:33 am

Talishi wrote:
Checkpoint wrote: Showing the truth, that was the way to become immortal and they did need it because they were not immortal.
If they were not immortal then they were already fallen from the git-go. What need of a savior then?

They were not "fallen" before they "fell"!

Sorry, I can't be bothered with what-ifs.

We have a story and, whether believed or not, it is best to deal with what is written rather than speculate. Or simply get on with life and leave it be.

onewithhim · Post by **onewithhim** » Thu Sep 15, 2016 9:01 am

Talishi wrote:
Monta wrote: "They were banished from the Garden so they could be saved. Had they stayed in the Garden they would have eaten the fruit of the tree of life and live forever in their fallen state."
Adam and Eve were said to be immortal and wouldn't need the Tree of Life. Then two seconds after they "fell" God needed to make emergency preparations to keep them away from it. Near as I can tell, God must like a challenge. Either that, or Moses needed a story editor big time.

Actually there's a difference between "immortal" and being able to live forever (as long as a person stays faithful). Immortality means that one CANNOT ever die. God knows that the person will always remain faithful, I guess. The very first individual to obtain immortality was Jesus Christ. (I Timothy 6:16) After that, the people chosen to rule with him in heaven would be given immortality (I Corinthians 15:51-53), once they died. (Contrary to popular opinion, angels are not immortal.)

Adam and Eve could have lived forever, the condition of which would have been continued obedience and respect for their Father, Jehovah God. They decided to choose independence, and gave Him the finger, so to speak.

Monta · Post by **Monta** » Thu Sep 15, 2016 10:56 am

onewithhim wrote:
Monta wrote: [Replying to post 54 by B Bob]

"They were banished from the Garden so they could be saved. Had they stayed in the Garden they would have eaten the fruit of the tree of life and live forever in their fallen state."

That's another gem I picked up from your post.

You wouldn't have your insights packed on one page somewhere perhaps?
"Gems" from B Bob? Have you really been following this thread at all? He has been proven to be in error every time he says something. I can't even subject myself to his brazen nonsense any further. He's the first person I EVER put on "ignore" in all the years I've been on religious discussion board.

I am still bit lost on these forums but I've read couple of Bob's posts and some things he said made things clearer where before I did not quite get it.
I am looking forward to reading the above but for now have flu and must to bed*)

Talishi · Post by **Talishi** » Thu Sep 15, 2016 8:21 pm

onewithhim wrote: Contrary to popular opinion, angels are not immortal.

Is not the devil an angel?

Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

onewithhim · Post by **onewithhim** » Wed Sep 21, 2016 11:01 am

Monta wrote:
onewithhim wrote:
Monta wrote: [Replying to post 54 by B Bob]

"They were banished from the Garden so they could be saved. Had they stayed in the Garden they would have eaten the fruit of the tree of life and live forever in their fallen state."

That's another gem I picked up from your post.

You wouldn't have your insights packed on one page somewhere perhaps?
"Gems" from B Bob? Have you really been following this thread at all? He has been proven to be in error every time he says something. I can't even subject myself to his brazen nonsense any further. He's the first person I EVER put on "ignore" in all the years I've been on religious discussion board.

I am still bit lost on these forums but I've read couple of Bob's posts and some things he said made things clearer where before I did not quite get it.
I am looking forward to reading the above but for now have flu and must to bed*)

Unfortunately, the individual under discussion is way off. He's even beyond left field. I have found that just about any question you could ask can be answered on the website www.jw.org and I, personally, was glad that I asked for a Bible Study.

Hope you're feeling better.

onewithhim · Post by **onewithhim** » Wed Sep 21, 2016 11:33 am

Talishi wrote:
onewithhim wrote: Contrary to popular opinion, angels are not immortal.
Is not the devil an angel?

Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Yes, of course he's an angel, though a fallen one.

Revelation is written in signs and symbols. Why do you take Rev.20:10 totally literally? It is an example of a situation that is symbolic of something, something in metaphorical language. Please tell me....is there a literal wild beast that has ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns? (Rev.13:1) If there is one of these in existence, where is it? It is supposed to have been in existence for a long time. Could it be that this "beast" is SYMBOLIC of something else?

Beasts are used to picture governments or kingdoms of men. (See Daniel 7:2-8.) All these beasts are not actual animals. They SYMBOLIZE something else---governments.

Additionally, are the weirdly unusual locusts in Revelation 9:2-9 literal? They "resembled horses prepared for battle; and upon their heads were what seemed to be crowns like gold, and their faces were as men's faces, but they had hair as women's hair. And their teeth were as those of lions; and they had breastplates like iron breastplates." Do you think this describes the appearance of actual bugs? I personally think that this is describing something else. This is a metaphor for some event involving a certain people that are, in a sense, "warring" against something, something that is perhaps fighting against Almighty God in some way, and His defenders are LIKE these fierce "locusts."

If the wild beast with seven heads and the terrible-looking locusts are NOT LITERAL, and most of Revelation is NOT LITERAL, then why do people take Revelation 20:10 literally? I believe that this is a prophecy concerning the Devil's destruction. The "lake of fire" is not a literal lake, but is SYMBOLIC of COMPLETE ANNIHILATION. Look at verse 14....can "death and Hades" literally be "hurled" (or "cast")? NO. "This MEANS the second death, the lake of fire." These images are used to show us what is actually meant. The Devil, being cast into the lake of fire, means that he will be completely DESTROYED, along with death and Hades (the grave). No one in Paradise (the restored earth) will die again, ever.

And the Devil will be dead forever. That is what verse 10 means. "Tormented" simply has the meaning of not being able to do anything. Satan will not be able to do anything because he will be dead. (So, we can see that angels are not immortal. As long as they continue to honor God, they will be able to live.)

us and Jehovah

B Bob · Post by **B Bob** » Wed Sep 21, 2016 11:39 am

[Replying to post 67 by Talishi]

They are dead in the sense they are forever separated from the Giver of Life; God. However, does eternal punishment not indicate they exist in a tormented hell forever?

I am curious, why do you always look at the scriptures to see if you can prove them wrong?