Is Hillary Clinton "Untrustworthy?"

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Tired of the Nonsense
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Is Hillary Clinton "Untrustworthy?"

Post #1

Post by Tired of the Nonsense »

While Bill Clinton was still governor of Arkansas, before I really even had a clear idea of who the Clinton's are, someone told me a particularly obscene Hillary Clinton joke. Why are people telling obscene jokes about this woman I am barely aware of, this woman who is after all the WIFE of a politician and not even (then) running for office herself, I wondered? That is the extent of the character assassination of Hillary Clinton that has been occurring for more than 30 years now. Why? Apparently because she has the audacity to have thoughts, ideas and opinions of her own. Clearly she is NOT the Republican ideal of what a woman and wife should be. Hillary Clinton is everything Republicans hate. An intelligent well educated AMBITIOUS woman. How dare she!

Here is a list of the various "offences" that Republicans have charged Hillary with over the years.

1. When she was first lady, she murdered White House lawyer Vince Foster and then dumped his body in a park.
2. She drove Vince Foster to commit suicide through her temper tantrums.
3. She was having an affair with Vince Foster.
4. She’s a lesbian.
5. Chelsea isn’t Bill Clinton’s child.
6. She murdered Vince Foster to cover up that she once bought a tract of undeveloped land in Arkansas and lost money.
7. She murdered Vince Foster to cover up her role in firing the White House travel department.
8. After she murdered Vince Foster, she ransacked his office in the middle of the night and stole all the documents proving her guilt.
9. When Bill Clinton was governor of Arkansas, she was a partner in the state’s top law firm, and it sometimes did work involving the state government.
10. She once invested in commodities futures on the advice of a friend and made $100,000, proving she’s a crook.
11. She once invested in real estate on the advice of another friend and lost $100,000, also proving she’s a crook.
12. Unnamed and unverifiable sources have told Peggy Noonan things about the Clintons that are simply too terrible to repeat.
13. The personnel murdered at Benghazi make her the first secretary of state to lose overseas personnel to terrorism — apart from Condi Rice, Colin Powell, Madeleine Albright, George Schultz, Dean Rusk and some others.
14. Four State Department staff were murdered at Benghazi, compared with only 119 others murdered overseas under every secretary of state combined since World War II.
15. She illegally sent classified emails from her personal server, except that apparently they weren’t classified at the time.
16. She may have cynically wriggled around the email law by “technically� complying with it.
17. She once signed a lucrative book contract when she was a private citizen.
18. Donald Trump says she “should be in jail,� and he’s a serial bankrupt casino developer in Atlantic City, so he should know.
19. Former House Majority Leader Tom Delay says his “law-enforcement sources� tell him she is “about to be indicted� — and if a man once convicted of money laundering and conspiracy doesn’t have good law-enforcement sources, who does?
20. She’s a hard-left radical who wants to break up the nuclear family.
21. She’s a conservative “mousewife� who refused to break up her own family.
22. She’s in favor of single moms.
23. She refused to be a single mom.
24. When she was first lady of Arkansas, she pandered to conservative voters by dyeing her hair.
25. Before that, she totally insulted them by refusing to.
26. She’s a frump.
27. She spends too much money on designer dresses.
28. She has “cankles.�
29. She has a grating voice.
30. She yells into the microphone.
31. She spent 18 years in Arkansas and some of the people she knew turned out to be crazy rednecks and crooks.
32. She’s in the pay of the mafia.
33. She’s in the pay of the Chinese government.
34. She’s in the pay of the Wall Street banks.
35. In order to suppress the billing records from her time at the Rose Law Firm in Little Rock, she cleverly packed them up and took them to the White House rather than shredding them.
36. When she handed over the documents to public officials, they couldn’t find any evidence she’d committed any crimes, so she must have doctored them.
37. Congress spent tens of millions of dollars and six years investigating her investment in the Whitewater real-estate project, and, while they didn’t actually find anything, they wouldn’t have spent all that money if there weren’t something there.
38. By cleverly hiding all evidence of her crimes in the Whitewater affair, she caused Congress to waste all that taxpayers’ money.
39. When she ran for senator of New York, she was still a fan of the Chicago Cubs.
40. She once said the Clintons were thinking of adopting a child, and they didn’t follow through.
41. She was photographed holding her hand near her mouth during the raid that killed Osama bin Laden.
42. She’s got brain damage.
43. She’s old.
44. She’s really ambitious and calculating, unlike all the other people running for president.
45. She secretly supported Palestinian terrorists, Puerto Rican terrorists and Guatemalan terrorists.
46. She secretly supported a group that wants to give Maine back to the Indians.
47. She’s a secret follower of “radical prophet� Saul Alinsky.
48. She did her law degree at Yale, and it’s a well-known “socialist finishing school.�
49. When she was young, she did things to build up her résumé rather than just for their own good.
50. When Bill was president, she “allowed� him to keep people waiting.
51. She’s married to a sex addict.
52. She’s an enemy of traditional marriage.
53. She didn’t divorce her husband.
54. His philandering is her fault because she is too strong, and too weak, and too frumpy, and too fat, and too cold.
55. She’s hostile to women who fool around with her husband.
56. A divorced taxi driver in Florida told me that if Hillary is elected president, “women will take over everything.�
57. She insulted Tammy Wynette.
58. When they left the White House, she and Bill bought a big house in New York that they couldn’t afford.
59. She sometimes calls her staff during dinner, even when they’re out at a restaurant.
60. She claimed there was a “vast right-wing conspiracy� against her husband, and it turned out there was nothing but a bunch of tycoons financing private investigators, and some fake think tanks and books and news sites and stuff.
61. When she got married, she didn’t “stay at home and bake cookies.�
62. She supported the Iraq war because she’s a secret foreign-policy conservative.
63. She’s a secret foreign-policy radical with a plan to impose worldwide “radical social experimentation� through the World Bank.
64. She is secretly plotting to let children sue their parents for making them take out the garbage.
65. She looked bored during the Benghazi hearings.

And yet she is still still walking around free? In actual fact, she has never actually been charged with a crime, much less convicted of anything. One would think that anyone THIS evil would have been hung, beheaded, drawn and quartered by now.

What do the polls indicate that Hillary Clinton's biggest negative is? That she is "untrustworthy." Given all of the untrue and plainly mean spirited vilification that has been heaped on her over the years, the fact that she is still standing on the public stage says a lot about her character. Given the unprecedented level of bile thrown at her for years now, most people would have packed it in long ago.
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Post #2

Post by Wootah »

Bill Clinton appears to be a sexual predator and Hillary an enabler. She appears to have put up with all that for the power

How is she trustworthy?

Defending her is impossible on moral grounds but justified on realism grounds.

The realistic choice is voting according to who will be better for America.

Although that really isn't the choice. 8 t will be who gives me the best short term deal.
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Post #3

Post by Divine Insight »

All the accusations against Hillary are politically motivated by the dishonest Republicans.

They couldn't get her on the original charges of potentially being careless with sensitive classified materials. Now they are trying to make something up about the Clinton Foundation. And Rudy Giuliani is making clearly false accusation about her health. :roll:

Clearly the Republicans are in deep trouble. They don't dare try to attack Hillary on any actual policy issues because her polices are sound. :D

This is why they desperately need to make up erroneous accusations.

When they can't address the issues you know they've lost. And with Trump as their nominee they need to distract from polices as much as possible because Trump has no sane or realistic policies to offer.
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Re: Is Hillary Clinton "Untrustworthy?"

Post #4

Post by WinePusher »

Tired of the Nonsense wrote:Clearly she is NOT the Republican ideal of what a woman and wife should be. Hillary Clinton is everything Republicans hate. An intelligent well educated AMBITIOUS woman. How dare she!
This is an incredibly simplistic and naive view of Clinton's politics. Do you know who hates Hillary Clinton even more than the republicans? The progressives, the Bernie Sanders supporters, the socialists who see Clinton as a crony capitalist. So you can say that she is universally hated by a wide variety of different political groups.

Now, I'm a republican and I don't hate Clinton at all. Yea, she's a liar and she's untrustworthy, but that is true for ALL politicians. I wouldn't mind her being president one bit. Deep down, she isn't a believer of progressive philosophy. She would expand free trade, she would most likely deregulate and lower taxes on all income brackets, she would govern as a centrist. So if you don't favor free trade, if want more financial regulation and higher taxes then maybe you should reconsider your support for her.

Oh, and if you don't want to see anymore American intervention in the Middle East then you DEFINITELY should oppose a Clinton presidency.
Tired of the Nonsense wrote:What do the polls indicate that Hillary Clinton's biggest negative is? That she is "untrustworthy."
Because reasonable people who think for themselves and aren't blind surrogates of Hillary understand that she's lied on multiple occasions, making her untrustworthy. But like I said, every politician is untrustworthy. Trump is even worse since he talks out of both sides of his mouth.

But honestly, if you think that Clinton is completely trustworthy and isn't a liar then you need to think this issue through a bit more thoroughly.

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Re: Is Hillary Clinton "Untrustworthy?"

Post #5

Post by Bust Nak »

WinePusher wrote: Do you know who hates Hillary Clinton even more than the republicans? The progressives, the Bernie Sanders supporters, the socialists who see Clinton as a crony capitalist. So you can say that she is universally hated by a wide variety of different political groups.
Hating someone due to differing political view is one thing, hating someone due to her being a successful woman is quite another, even if one grants that the hate due to the former is stronger than the latter.

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Post #6

Post by Furrowed Brow »

British journalist Ambrose Evans-Pritchard wrote a book on the Clintons back in 1997 - The Secret Life of Bill Clinton.. The criticism is harsh and it would be a stretch to blame Ambrose Evan-Pritchard's attack as a result of Republican dirt raking and conspiracy theory. Thought maybe conservative forces ran with it. The books contains allegations of politically protected drug running through Arkansas.

Here's an interview A E-P gave on C-span:
[youtube][/youtube]
My opinion of Hillary was solidified in her famous - "we came, we saw, he'd died" response to the death of Gaddafi.

[youtube][/youtube]
In my opinion that response is sociopathic. Drawing the conclusion Hillary has sociopathic tendencies does not make her guilty of that long list of crimes and wrong doings and trivialities given in the OP. However I think it is reasonable to be suspicious of the capacity for serious wrong doing be that emails, dodgy fund raising or worse.

Is she trustworthy? - of course not. But that does not necessarily make her a poor Presidential candidate.

Her personal traits aside quite clearly she is Wall Street candidate. Like Bill she will look after the interests of her backers and big money before the little guy. I think some of the contempt for Hillary from the Bernie Sander's supporters and commentators like Chris Hedges is correctly motivated.

I mention Chris Hedges because he is a commentator of the left who rejects the two party system as a system that perpetuates the interests of a political and wealthy elite.

[youtube][/youtube]

This video from James Corbett gives an account (perhaps hyperbole) of why not Hillary.

[youtube][/youtube]
James Corbett is Canadian, works in Japan and is also highly critical of the two party system. I am not sure Corbett has Hillary right (I really hope not for all our sakes) but I lean towards the idea we are going to see not just more war but a major war under a Clinton Presidency.

Neither Hedges nor Corbett are Republicans or conservative. Hedges is socialists Corbett more an anarchist. Both reject the two party system and see it as part of the problem.

The said a Trump Presidency is gong to be a disaster and I do not believe he is the outsider his supporters wish him to be. There is a good chance we are going to get the same wars under Trump than we'll get under Clinton, the banking system will not be contained under either. The only difference I can see is there is likely to be more frequent and larger race riots under Trump and his Presidency will have a more Nationalistic tone, on a day to day basis it will be more unpredictable, and there will be more scapegoating.

Neither Trump nor Clinton are going to usher in a new economic resurgency in America. The problem is bigger than the both of them.

Basically - I see America has a choice of two doors. Whichever door they choose to open will lead to ever greater authoritarianism and fascism as the wealth and power in America strive to keep control as the working and middle classes continue to feel the effects of long term economic decline and falling standard of living.

The point from the OP that Clinton has not been charged with any crime...is the point. How we react to that question signals what society we believe we live in. I say "we" because I think the point applies more less everywhere. Do our systems of government represent the people or do they manage us whilst protecting the interests of wealth and power. I am of the latter view. And I think I am watching an America that that has tried very hard not to prosecute Clinton.

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Re: Is Hillary Clinton "Untrustworthy?"

Post #7

Post by WinePusher »

Bust Nak wrote:
WinePusher wrote: Do you know who hates Hillary Clinton even more than the republicans? The progressives, the Bernie Sanders supporters, the socialists who see Clinton as a crony capitalist. So you can say that she is universally hated by a wide variety of different political groups.
Hating someone due to differing political view is one thing, hating someone due to her being a successful woman is quite another, even if one grants that the hate due to the former is stronger than the latter.
You have no way to justify this repugnant position though. If you think that the majority of republicans hate Clinton because she's 'successful' woman then please, provide some objective evidence for it. Btw, objective evidence precludes your own biased and warped opinions.

Also, note that the republican party if FULL of successful woman, ranging from Meg Whitman (the founder of Ebay and current CEO of HP) to Condoleezza Rice (the first African American Woman Secretary of State) as well as a plethora of republican women in Congress.

So how does that jive with the repugnant view that republicans hate Clinton cause she's a successful female? It doesn't, does it?

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Post #8

Post by jgh7 »

I trust her as much as I trust a used car salesman. She's a panderer and flip-flopper. She changed her stance from anti-gay marriage to pro-gay marriage when the time to do so was in her favor, and then she says she "evolved" on the issue. I don't buy that for a second.

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Re: Is Hillary Clinton "Untrustworthy?"

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Post by Tired of the Nonsense »

WinePusher wrote:
Bust Nak wrote:
WinePusher wrote: Do you know who hates Hillary Clinton even more than the republicans? The progressives, the Bernie Sanders supporters, the socialists who see Clinton as a crony capitalist. So you can say that she is universally hated by a wide variety of different political groups.
Hating someone due to differing political view is one thing, hating someone due to her being a successful woman is quite another, even if one grants that the hate due to the former is stronger than the latter.
You have no way to justify this repugnant position though. If you think that the majority of republicans hate Clinton because she's 'successful' woman then please, provide some objective evidence for it. Btw, objective evidence precludes your own biased and warped opinions.

Also, note that the republican party if FULL of successful woman, ranging from Meg Whitman (the founder of Ebay and current CEO of HP) to Condoleezza Rice (the first African American Woman Secretary of State) as well as a plethora of republican women in Congress.

So how does that jive with the repugnant view that republicans hate Clinton cause she's a successful female? It doesn't, does it?
Wine Pusher wrote: Do you know who hates Hillary Clinton even more than the republicans? The progressives, the Bernie Sanders supporters, the socialists who see Clinton as a crony capitalist. So you can say that she is universally hated by a wide variety of different political groups.
To say that progressives hate Hillary more than Republicans is not only a vast overstatement, it's entirely ludicrous. But it is true that the most liberal of the liberals do not find her liberal enough. She's actually a boring slightly left of center centrist. According to the extreme right, she is nothing less than a card carrying Commie. I don't know what that makes Bernie Sanders. What's to the left of a Commie in hysterical right wing rhetoric?
Wine Pusher wrote: You have no way to justify this repugnant position though. If you think that the majority of republicans hate Clinton because she's 'successful' woman then please, provide some objective evidence for it. Btw, objective evidence precludes your own biased and warped opinions.
Here is what your compatriot Yahu had to say about Hillary in the "Christians... Are Women Not Fit To Be President?" topic.
Yahu wrote: IMO, no women are not fit to rule. They tend to make decisions based on emotions by their nature.

I certainly don't want a president that will base decisions on how they feel at the moment. Not only is our plumbing different but the way we are wired to think is different. It has nothing to do with equality between the sexes but the inherent differences. Equal doesn't imply that we are the same.
Does Yahu represent all Republicans? He represents the lunatic faction that is currently driving Republican politics and has provided us with that boy wonder Donald Trump. Could the Democrats have purposely designed a bigger buffoon to be the face of the Republican party if they tried? Donald Trump as a serious candidate for president would be really funny if the bare possibility that he might actually win wasn't so unnerving. At least the Donald is not as bat-shoot crazy as his closest rival, Ted Cruz. That these two emerged as the leading candidates for the Republican nomination has had the entire world aghast. As a Brit once told me, "The American President is the de-faco leader of the entire word, and most of us don't get a say. So choose wisely." Donald Trump and Ted Cruz? Holy Carp!

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Re: Is Hillary Clinton "Untrustworthy?"

Post #10

Post by bluethread »

Tired of the Nonsense wrote:
Does Yahu represent all Republicans? He represents the lunatic faction that is currently driving Republican politics and has provided us with that boy wonder Donald Trump.
This is nothing more than defamatory hyperbole. I do not recall Yahu ever claiming to represent "all Republicans", or anyone but himself for that matter. Also, the opinions of Yahu have nothing to do with the views of WinePusher. Maybe, if you could address the points actually made by WinePusher, you could make a better argument.

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