Jehovah's Witnesses and 1914

[JehovahsWitness]

Jehovah's Witnesses believe Jesus became King in 1914.

When do you believe Jesus became king?

JW

[tam]

Peace to you JW,


In front of His apostles and before He was taken up, Christ said:


"All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me."

If Christ received ALL authority at that time, how could he later receive more authority?



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A couple other verses to help see this:


To the one who conquers I will grant to sit down with me on my throne, just as I conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne. Revelation 3:21


(conquered and SAT down with His Father on His throne - past tense, already done)


And to the one who conquers and observes my deeds down to the end, I will give authority over the nations - and he will shepherd the people with an iron rod so that they will be broken to pieces like clay vessels - just as I have received from my Father. Revelation 2:26-28



Peace again to you and to your loved ones,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[tam]

Peace again to you JW.

I am permitted to share the following logic as well, re: the WTS claim about Christ returning and ruling in 1914. It is not my own post, but part of the post that another in Christ shared. But truth is truth, yes?

******


Logic Statement No. 1:

. Per the BIBLE, Christ returns "immediately AFTER the great tribulation (of those days) has ended" - Matthew 24:29-31

. Per the WTBTS, Christ returned "in 1914"

. IF, though, Christ returned in 1914... THEN[, per the BIBLE... the "great tribulation" has already come and gone (because it is BEFORE my Lord's return! His return is, per the BIBLE... immediately AFTER the "great tribulation"!)

THEREFORE...

. IF Christ returned in 1914, and the GT has concluded (because it concludes before he returns), THEN THEIR teaching of a GT in the FUTURE... MUST be false. MUST be.

Do ya'll SEE?

Yet, the WTBTS is still preaching... and scaring the hell outta people with... the threat of "the COMING great tribulation." Given the LOGIC shown above, such threat CANNOT exist, let alone be imminent.


But...

"Oh, no, dear (edited), wait! They don't teach that he RETURNED in 1914 - only that he SAT DOWN on his THRONE and began to RULE in 1914!"

Really. Are "you" SURE (you who would ask that, but not necessarily anyone HERE). Because if that is "only" what they teach... HOW, then, did he DO THE SO-CALLED "INSPECTION" claimed to have been done by the WTBTS as to THEM... so as to find THEM the "faithful and discreet slave" in 1918???? You know, the "inspection" done of the "faithful and discreet slave, who the Master... ON HIS RETURN"... supposedly found THEM to be???

If the "great tribulation" ENDS... immediately BEFORE his return (his return being "immediately AFTER the great tribulation... has ENDED")... then it HAD to have ENDED... BEFORE 1914!

Yes?? Yes!

The "great tribulation" occurs BEFORE Christ returns, based simply on the WORDS "immediately AFTER" found at Matthew 24:29.

And so the ONLY conclusion(s) can BE:

On the one hand - IF Christ returned in 1914... THEN the Great Tribulation has ALREADY occurred... and ended.

CONCLUSION (and there can be no other in this instance): If the WTBTS is right and Christ returned in 1914/1918... then there can be NO PENDING GT... per WTBTS teaching.[/size]


On the other hand - IF the WTBTS is right... and the great tribulation has NOT occurred YET... THEN... based on Matthew 24:29-31... Christ... CANNOT HAVE RETURNED in 1914/1918.

CONCLUSION: The GT has NOT occurred yet... therefore, Christ... CANNOT have returned yet.

In WHICH cases - IF Christ DIDN'T (actually) return in 1914/1918... THEN the WHOLE WTBTS (self) designation as the FDS is FALSE.

CONCLUSION (and there can be no other in this instance): Christ has NOT returned, yet... because the GT has not occurred yet... therefore, the WTBTS/its GB is NOT the "Faithful and Discreet Slave."


ReGARDless... you CANNOT have BOTH (well, three). You CANNOT have:

1. Christ having returned... but the great tribulation NOT having even occurred yet;
2. The great tribulation pending... but Christ having already returned;
3. Christ NOT having returned... yet, having "inspected" (his) belongings and appointed a "faithful and discreet slave."

You CANNOT. Not to mention... he is only to return... ONCE. Not twice, as the WTBTS has him doing (once in 1914, then again at some later point). Their explanation for THAT is that he returns first in SPIRIT, then in a physical sense. What they forget to TELL folks is that he returned IN SPIRIT... when he was resurrected from the dead. At that time, he returned in flesh AND spirit. S'how he was able to walk through walls/doors... disappear right before their eyes... ascend...

The NEXT time, however, EVERY eye will see him. EVERY eye DIDN'T, however, in 1918. Per the WTBTS' own admission... only THEY "discerned" him. What the heck happened to EVERY eye?? Oh, right... that's for the SECOND time he returns. Question as to THAT is: what's he gonna do THAT time... since, supposedly, when he returns he conducts an inspection? You know, that inspection he supposedly ALREADY CONDUCTED?


*********

http://xjwsforchrist.forumatic.com/index.php

May you be granted ears to hear if you wish them, and to anyone thirsting and seeking and wishing, "Come! Take the free gift of the water of Life!"

Which water is holy spirit, poured out from the Life: who is my Lord and King, Jaheshua, the Chosen One of Jah. Which holy spirit His God and Father has given to the Son without end, that the Son may give to whomever He chooses.



Peace to you and to your household,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 2 by tam]

So, correct me if I am wrong, you believe Jesus became king in 33 CE? Was this event visible to all humans living on the earth at the time or did he become king in 33 CE invisibly in the heavens?

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 2 by tam]

So, correct me if I am wrong, you believe Jesus became king in 33 CE? Was this event visible to all humans living on the earth at the time or did he become king in 33 CE invisibly in the heavens?

Seems that was an invisible event. Just as the 1914 event was invisible. Neither are verifiable and both matters of belief.

Also, didn't Jesus suggest he was already King in his trial before Pilate?

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 2 by tam]

So, correct me if I am wrong, you believe Jesus became king in 33 CE? Was this event visible to all humans living on the earth at the time or did he become king in 33 CE invisibly in the heavens?

Seems that was an invisible event. Just as the 1914 event was invisible. Neither are verifiable and both matters of belief.

Also, didn't Jesus suggest he was already King in his trial before Pilate?

It wasn't clear from tams answer when (s)he believes Jesus became king, I take it some time prior to the statement in 33 CE but I don't get from the answer when (which is why I asked).

Jesus confirmed to Pilate regarding his kingship "For this purpose I was born and for this purpose I have come into the world—to bear witness to the truth." So it could be interpreted he was saying yes, he was born to be a king, not that he was at the time of speaking.

I know a lot of Christians sing at Christmas that the infant Jesus was "born to be king" I have yet to meet one of them that tells me when this happened.


JW

[tam]

[Replying to post 2 by tam]

So, correct me if I am wrong, you believe Jesus became king in 33 CE? Was this event visible to all humans living on the earth at the time or did he become king in 33 CE invisibly in the heavens?

All authority was given to him at that time, yes, (whatever the year was of his death and resurrection)

No this event was not visible to all humans living on earth at the time.

But a sign did accompany this: the outpouring of holy spirit by Christ.


Not that we should need a sign, those whose faith is in Him. His words - all authority in heaven and on earth has been granted to me - should be enough for us.


Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 2 by tam]

So, correct me if I am wrong, you believe Jesus became king in 33 CE? Was this event visible to all humans living on the earth at the time or did he become king in 33 CE invisibly in the heavens?

All authority was given to him at that time, yes, (whatever the year was of his death and resurrection)

No this event was not visible to all humans living on earth at the time.

But a sign did accompany this: the outpouring of holy spirit by Christ.

So you believe Jesus became a king in 33 CE and although there were signs of this event and faithful Christians were aware of it, the itself event was invisible to the vast majority of the population of the earth. Is that a fair statement?

Did Jesus become a king on earth in 33 CE or in heaven in 33 CE?

JW

[tam]

[Replying to post 7 by JehovahsWitness]

Yes, that is a fair statement.

I don't know what you mean by the second statement.


May I ask you a question now?

What authority could Christ have received that could be more than ALL authority?



Peace to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[JehovahsWitness]

Yes, that is a fair statement.

Interesting because apart from the date, that is exactly what Jehovah's Witnesses believe. It's good to find some common ground, because some people criticize us for claiming Christ became king, not at his birth but later and that this event was invisible to the majority of mankind.

What authority could Christ have received that could be more than ALL authority?

I don't understand the question, could you give some context to what you are asking?

JW