The Definition of God

[Delphi]

God is often defined as having various extraordinary characteristics. Infinitely loving, all powerful, omniscient, the creator of the Universe, etc.

How can we know that this is indeed true? How can we verify such grandiose assertions? No greater claims could possibly be made!

Normally, we make definitions based on verifiable evidence and observation. For example, we define a giraffe as being a large four-legged grazing mammal with a long neck, hooves, a mouth, a tongue, teeth, and two eyes. We can rationally define a giraffe this way based on verifiable observation. We define a giraffe by going out and finding a giraffe, then defining it based on its attributes.

Yet somehow, God is defined in the opposite manner. We do not go out and find god and define it based on its attributes. Instead, we apply god's characteristics to him without ever observing god. Definitions seem to fabricated out of imagination. I find this extremely dubious.

It seems to me that we are applying these definitions to the concept of a god. We cannot verify nor falsify these attributes.

What is going on here?

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 187 by JLB32168]



[center]Fallacious Religious Reasoning:
Thinking that interpretations of the Bible are what the Bible SAYS.
Part Four: Imagining things.[/center]

I define "God" as a psychotic, evil wizard of some kind.

Okay – so “Love your neighbor as yourself� is the product of psychotic wizardry. Gotcha.

Not so fast !!

The only thing that you GOT.. was your fantasy.
Wouldn't you think it better to ask for MY opinion and THEN try to GET IT?

I said that GOD is a psychotic wizard. Not the Book of God..
Men wrote that one.

Under the MIND CONTROL of God... ( called divine inspiration )

Yep, the wizard has great propaganda.. The Bible sounds REAL NICE as all great propaganda should. And because the wizard is a psychotic EVIL monster, the Bible is a pack of "divinely inspired" lies.

Next time, I suggest that if you want my opinion, that you DO MORE than give it to me. I suggest that you ASK FOR IT.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 187 by JLB32168]



[center]Fallacious Religious Reasoning:
Thinking that interpretations of the Bible are what the Bible SAYS.
Part FOUR: Insinuations.[/center]

Well, I am not "most physicists". I am Blastcat, and I only presume to be speaking for THAT cat.

Okay – well I’m telling you that most scientists believe that all created energy, that some of the energy cooled and became matter and that both came from a singularity that was most likely eternal; therefore, something can be uncreated while creating. If you take issue with science then you’re no different that the Bible-thumping YEC in my eyes – not that you should care, of course.

You can tell me that until you are blue in the face.
If you don't back up your STUNNING assertion, I'm going to assume that ONCE AGAIN, you confuse your opinions for facts.

I truly wish you could get that point.
You are ENTITLED to your opinions, but you have to PROVE that they are facts in here.
It's a rule.

So, I challenge your statement about MOST SCIENTISTS BELIEVE this or that.
Back up your HUGE claim ( about most physicists ) or DROP IT.

This is getting us nowhere.

And insinuating that I have "issues" with science to the degree of YEC, is a personal insult to me. Insinuating further that I don't CARE about that kind of insult is even worse. I REALLY don't think you should go further down that path.

EVER


( insinuations do not help your case, but rather, degrade it considerably )

[Blastcat]

somehow, I made a repeat post... please delete this

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 187 by JLB32168]



[center]Fallacious Religious Reasoning:
Thinking that interpretations of the Bible are what the Bible SAYS.
Part Five: Pointing out the obvious and thinking that debates are about our feelings. [/center]

WOW . a morally perfect "God" has to "amend" his ways?

Since God is the only absolute, meaning that morality isn’t, then God can do no wrong since He defines the two.

I'm sorry, but I was responding to your statement that God has to amend his ways. It's weird to thin that a perfect god has to do BETTER... I can't make heads or tails of that one.

Why would one need to AMEND what is PERFECT in the first place?
Language problems, that's all I can think of.

As for the rest of your stuff on how odious you think God is, you’re entitled to your opinion. I realize that’s a facile dismissal of your opinion but I’m cool with that. That you might not be cool with it is something with which I simply cannot be bothered.

The debate isn't about what I consider "COOL" or not.
Debates are about IDEAS, not personal feelings.

Thank you for once again pointing out the PERFECTLY OBVIOUS FACT that we are all entitled to our opinions. Repeating this endlessly is not going to help your case.

_______________

FOR THE RECORD:

Blastcat knows he is entitled to his OPINION.
_______________

What you still fail to realize is that OUR OPINIONS are not FACTS.
And also FACILE DISMISSALS are NOT DEBATES.

[onewithhim]

To Delphi and FinalEnigma:

Rather than just ignoring me, please respond to my posts: #179 (Delphi) and #180 (FinalEngima).

Thanks.

[Blastcat]

To Delphi and FinalEnigma:

Rather than just ignoring me, please respond to my posts: #179 (Delphi) and #180 (FinalEngima).

Thanks.

yeah.. ignoring people never helps a debate.
its better to engage with people than to simply ignore them ...

I think that when I engage with someone I do not agree with, I learn.
I learn a whole lot of things in here...

I sent you many questions that you didn't reply to because you have chosen to ignore me.. So, I know how it feels.

Hope you reconsider answering my questions once more.
Cheers

[JLB32168]

Fallacious Religious Reasoning: Thinking that interpretations of the Bible are what the Bible SAYS.

Okay. [p1]The Bible – the source of information for everything being argued here, says “Love your neighbor as yourself.� [p2]You say that God is psychotic; therefore, “Love your neighbor as yourself� is indicative of psychosis and evil. You apparently are the one who doesn’t understand the repercussions of what you say. That’s your affair.

Furthermore, you exclude those parts that don’t further your argument. I’d win every debate too if I could exclude evidence that frustrates my point.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 197 by JLB32168]





[center]Fallacious Religious Reasoning:
Thinking that interpretations of the Bible are what the Bible SAYS.
Part Six: Telling others what it is they think.[/center]

Fallacious Religious Reasoning: Thinking that interpretations of the Bible are what the Bible SAYS.

Okay. [p1]The Bible – the source of information for everything being argued here, says “Love your neighbor as yourself.�

Ok, great.
I can agree and accept that premise.
In my opinion, P1 holds.

[p2]You say that God is psychotic; therefore, “Love your neighbor as yourself� is indicative of psychosis and evil. You apparently are the one who doesn’t understand the repercussions of what you say. That’s your affair.

THEREFORE?
You make a leap of logic.. I can't at all follow those, my friend.
Sorry.

I'd say that you don't understand my ideas, and that you aren't making much of an effort to understand my ideas. You may want to ask for clarification instead of simply dismissing your opponent's ideas. You know, debate?

Dismissal is not debate.
I will answer any and all questions you may have.

I don't see that you have much in the way of interest, so I wont offer an explanation at this time. I find being dismissed in a FACILE way very off-putting. I don't take an easy dismissal part of an honest debate.

Tell me that you care, and I will engage with you further.
Right now, I have more evidence that you DO NOT CARE about your opponent's ideas.

In my opinion, your P2 is bogus.

Furthermore, you exclude those parts that don’t further your argument.

I am quite sure that I have NO idea what you are referring to. A FACILE criticism, perhaps, to go along with your facile dismissal?

TOO facile, my friend, much, much too facile.

I’d win every debate too if I could exclude evidence that frustrates my point.

By that measure, I consider you to be a winner.

[JLB32168]

You make a leap of logic.. I can't at all follow those, my friend.

There’s no lead at all. The Bible teaches God’s command to love one’s neighbor. You say that God is psycho; therefore, a psycho told people to love their neighbor. Loving one’s neighbor by feeding him, clothing him, all that jazz – originated in a psycho’s mind. That’s your logic. I understand your ideas quite clearly. You do to (at least now you do) and now you’re trying to spin things.

Right now, I have more evidence that you DO NOT CARE about your opponent's ideas.In my opinion, your P2 is bogus.

Is the premise false? I don’t care about your opinion. I care if it’s false.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 199 by JLB32168]




[center]Fallacious Religious Reasoning:
Thinking that interpretations of the Bible are what the Bible SAYS.
Part Seven: Imagining instead of asking what I think[/center]

You make a leap of logic.. I can't at all follow those, my friend.

There’s no lead at all. The Bible teaches God’s command to love one’s neighbor. You say that God is psycho; therefore, a psycho told people to love their neighbor.

Perhaps it would save you some time if you ASKED me to clarify, instead of TELLING me what you think I'm saying like that.

But in this case, you would have guessed correctly.
According to my view of the Bible stories, a psycho wizard told people to love their neighbor.

Psychos have crazy evil ideas.. they might say just about anything for their crazy evil reasons. I do NOT presume to know their reasons to do evil.

All I know is that, from time to time, in the Bible, God brings out the EVIL.. with horrific results to people. Maybe all this "love" talk is to better set people UP.. so that they can fall all the LOWER.. who knows?

In my opinion, he's a psycho wizard.

Loving one’s neighbor by feeding him, clothing him, all that jazz – originated in a psycho’s mind. That’s your logic.

Wrong, that's your "logic".

I suspect that Ted Bundy said some very nice things to the women he tortured, raped and murdered. He was an evil psycho, too.

I understand your ideas quite clearly.

If you think so.. you should know, right?
Nobody knows my mind like you do, after all.

Is that how you think?
How about next time, you ask instead of telling me what I think.

And by the way, what you described is not MY LOGIC .. it's yours. You came up with that one.. NOT ME. So, it seems to me that the ideas that you understand quite clearly are your own ideas. If you want my ideas, ASK for them.

I don't take you as a mind reader.

DO YOU?

And for the record, you are wrong about understanding me quite clearly. You don't seem to at all. But what would I know, right?

You do to (at least now you do) and now you’re trying to spin things.

You are saying that I KNOW MY OWN IDEAS?
Wow.. stunning that I should know that. !!!

Well, I agree.. I know my own ideas.
You don't seem to know my own ideas. But you seem to need to pretend to me that you do, to which I think : "How odd !!"

Oh, by the way, what do you mean by "you’re trying to spin things"?

Right now, I have more evidence that you DO NOT CARE about your opponent's ideas.In my opinion, your P2 is bogus.

Is the premise false? I don’t care about your opinion. I care if it’s false.

You keep repeating that you do not care about my opinions.
I wonder if you think others should care about yours.

I'm sorry, but all I can give you is my opinion concerning P2. And in MY OPINION, ( which you don't care about, anyway ) is that it's bogus.

IN MY OPINION, when you state that:

[p2]You say that God is psychotic; therefore, “Love your neighbor as yourself� is indicative of psychosis and evil.

The conclusion " therefore, “Love your neighbor as yourself� is indicative of psychosis and evil. " does not follow from "God is psychotic".

IN MY OPINION: You make a leap of logic ... you offer no reason why someone psychotic and evil can't say something that sounds nice. We know psychotic evil people lie like that... and we also know why they do so.. to seduce and manipulate for their quite psychotic and evil purposes. Who knows what evil psychotic reasoning went into that Golden Rule pronouncement? I do not presume to know "the mind of God".

Do you?

I'm afraid that some people might presume that when I make a claim, that I am not FULLY prepared to back it up.

________________

FOR THE RECORD:

• When Blastcat makes a claim, he backs it up OR retracts. ( and usually apologizes )

________________

Do you?