I have read a little of some of the posts already, and some of the responses seem intelligent and civil, so hopefully I can participate in enjoyable discussions.
I have a substantial Christian background. I taught Sunday school for years, graduated from Nazarene Bible College and George Fox Seminary, pastored for ten years--two years as an associate and eight as a senior pastor. I left the ministry about thirteen years ago and embraced agnosticism/atheism.
I do not believe in anything miraculous at all. I do not believe the Bible is the word of God, or anyone ever walked on water unless they know how to swim, etc. However, I think the message of love, which is somewhat prominent in the New Testament can give meaning to people's lives still. At this time, I have moved a bit away from a hard core atheist. I think that there might be something out there watching and listening to us, but I do not think "it" is anything like what most Christians think.
Anyway, thanks for having me, Gordsd
Hello
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benchwarmer
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Re: Hello
Post #2[Replying to post 1 by gordsd]
Welcome aboard! Jump on in the water's fine
Looking forward to your perspective on the various issues.
Welcome aboard! Jump on in the water's fine
Looking forward to your perspective on the various issues.
what led me to leave
Post #4[Replying to otseng]
Well, it did not happen all at once. At first it was simply my own disappointment with my ministry and the ministry of all I knew as Christian ministers. There was just as much love outside the church as inside the church. After I left, for a break, I started reading atheist forums on-line—just for intellectual exercise, and I realized that I had never witnessed a miracle or an obvious miraculous answer to prayer. I simply accepted the testimony of others without asking for any real evidence at all. Too, reading Christopher Hitchens and listening to Richard Dawkins was/is a powerful influence. Anyway, I am not a hard core atheist anymore. I still pray. Hopefully, there is something out there watching over us, but I do not think any of us should count on it! If there is a “just� God out there somewhere that would be the frosting on the cake, but, if not, I will try to be as just and loving as I can—with or without.
Thank you for asking otseng.
Most sincerely, Gordon
Well, it did not happen all at once. At first it was simply my own disappointment with my ministry and the ministry of all I knew as Christian ministers. There was just as much love outside the church as inside the church. After I left, for a break, I started reading atheist forums on-line—just for intellectual exercise, and I realized that I had never witnessed a miracle or an obvious miraculous answer to prayer. I simply accepted the testimony of others without asking for any real evidence at all. Too, reading Christopher Hitchens and listening to Richard Dawkins was/is a powerful influence. Anyway, I am not a hard core atheist anymore. I still pray. Hopefully, there is something out there watching over us, but I do not think any of us should count on it! If there is a “just� God out there somewhere that would be the frosting on the cake, but, if not, I will try to be as just and loving as I can—with or without.
Thank you for asking otseng.
Most sincerely, Gordon
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Divine Insight
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Re: what led me to leave
Post #5My thoughts as well. It doesn't matter to me whether there exists a "God" or not, I would still prefer to live a loving peaceful and productive life.gordsd wrote: If there is a “just� God out there somewhere that would be the frosting on the cake, but, if not, I will try to be as just and loving as I can—with or without.
I was born and raised as a Christian. I originally accepted the "Great Commission" to teach the word of God. This led me to study the Bible intently for the purpose of understanding it well enough to teach it. It was that study that ultimately convinced me that the Bible cannot be true as written. So today I am no longer a "Christian" as I don't believe in the Bible or that Jesus is the Son of Yahweh.
However, like you, I haven't given up entirely on the idea of there potentially being something more to reality than meets the eye. I currently embrace various Eastern Mystical ideas of "God" as being potentially plausible, but even on that front I need to remain agnostic because agnostic simply means, "Without knowledge of facts". And as far as I can see, that's the only honest answer I can live with, anything else would be "pretense".
And now, I must confess, that I actually indulge in "pretense" on occassion.
Some might call it 'faith'.
I actually perform "Shamanic Journeys" as spiritual rituals (also called "casting a circle" in various pagan traditions). I find this practice to be meditative and to have pragmatic usefulness even on a secular level. Still, though I supposed I have to confess that to make these shamanic journeys meaningful I need to actually "believe" they are real when practicing them. So I confess to indulging in "pretense", or "faith", whilst simultaneously claiming claim to be intellectually agnostic. I often find that this is a dynamic state of consciousness that many people find difficult to understand. But it works for me.
Anyway, welcome to the forums.
[center]
Spiritual Growth - A person's continual assessment
of how well they believe they are doing
relative to what they believe a personal God expects of them.
[/center]
Spiritual Growth - A person's continual assessment
of how well they believe they are doing
relative to what they believe a personal God expects of them.
[/center]
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OnceConvinced
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Post #6
Welcome. You are in good company here. Many of us were committed Christians at one point and well and truly believed plus were actively involved in church, ministries and even leadership. You are yet another that demonstrates that Christianity is not all it's cracked up to be.
Society and its morals evolve and will continue to evolve. The bible however remains the same and just requires more and more apologetics and claims of "metaphors" and "symbolism" to justify it.
Prayer is like rubbing an old bottle and hoping that a genie will pop out and grant you three wishes.
There is much about this world that is mind boggling and impressive, but I see no need whatsoever to put it down to magical super powered beings.
Check out my website: Recker's World
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Zzyzx
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Re: Hello
Post #7.
[Replying to post 1 by gordsd]
Welcome
Perhaps what you post will help readers who are still Theists examine their beliefs (as you did) and question what they have been told.
I presume you are aware of www.clergyproject.org
[Replying to post 1 by gordsd]
Welcome
Perhaps what you post will help readers who are still Theists examine their beliefs (as you did) and question what they have been told.
I presume you are aware of www.clergyproject.org
Re: Hello
Post #8[Replying to post 7 by Zzyzx]
I am aware of the clergy project, and I am a member, but it has been about a year since I've participated. I got tired of the Christian bashing. Even though I am not a believer, I think that those who have once believed should be much more compassionate than what I experienced at TCP.
Thank you for responding.
I am aware of the clergy project, and I am a member, but it has been about a year since I've participated. I got tired of the Christian bashing. Even though I am not a believer, I think that those who have once believed should be much more compassionate than what I experienced at TCP.
Thank you for responding.
