Is THIS Obama/Hillary's America???

[Elijah John]

Hilary Duff felt compelled (pressured?) to apologize for dressing up like a Pilgrim for Halloween....in America!

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/hilary-duff-a ... oween.html

For debate:

1) What is so offensive about dressing up like America's founders...IN America?
2) Is this hostile-to-tradition mindset perpetuated by Barack Obama, and is it likely to continue with the oh so PC Hillary Clinton?
3) Is this taking PC way too far?
4) Is this the kind of America you want to live in, where one is always afraid of "offending" even for the most innocent words/actions?

And finally,

5) Is the kind of nonsense that may well get the anti-PC Donald Trump elected?

[Divine Insight]

4) Is this the kind of America you want to live in, where one is always afraid of "offending" even for the most innocent words/actions?

I would much rather live in a country where people consciously do their best not to offend others than to live in a country where unbridled bullying is encouraged.

And finally,

5) Is the kind of nonsense that may well get the anti-PC Donald Trump elected?

The anti-PC Donald Trump encourages bullying, racism, and religious bigotry.

Do you really want to return to a time when it's ok to use the n-word to purposefully offend people of a race that you may not like?

Being "PC" is just another term to describe being polite and respectful toward others. Why would you want to change that?

Which do you think Jesus would support? Being PC or being an obnoxious bully like Donald Trump?

I fully support the Obama/Hillary America. That's precisely the America I want to live in. I absolutely do not want to live in an America where Donald Trump is the model for anti-PC bullying. And that's exactly what will happen if he gets in. America will revert back to being a highly racist and bullying country.

So for me the choice is easy. Hillary gets my vote! A vote for humanity! A vote to move forward in terms of civility.

Voting for Trump is like voting to move back to the days of the Neanderthals. How long will it take us to then regain the civility and maturity that Obama and Hillary currently represent? We already have that level of maturity and civility now. All we need to do to retain it is vote for Hillary.

[Elijah John]

4) Is this the kind of America you want to live in, where one is always afraid of "offending" even for the most innocent words/actions?

I would much rather live in a country where people consciously do their best not to offend others than to live in a country where unbridled bullying is encouraged.

And finally,

5) Is the kind of nonsense that may well get the anti-PC Donald Trump elected?

The anti-PC Donald Trump encourages bullying, racism, and religious bigotry.

Do you really want to return to a time when it's ok to use the n-word to purposefully offend people of a race that you may not like?

Being "PC" is just another term to describe being polite and respectful toward others. Why would you want to change that?

Which do you think Jesus would support? Being PC or being an obnoxious bully like Donald Trump?

I fully support the Obama/Hillary America. That's precisely the America I want to live in. I absolutely do not want to live in an America where Donald Trump is the model for anti-PC bullying. And that's exactly what will happen if he gets in. America will revert back to being a highly racist and bullying country.

So for me the choice is easy. Hillary gets my vote! A vote for humanity! A vote to move forward in terms of civility.

Voting for Trump is like voting to move back to the days of the Neanderthals. How long will it take us to then regain the civility and maturity that Obama and Hillary currently represent? We already have that level of maturity and civility now. All we need to do to retain it is vote for Hillary.

Now just a minute....wearing a Pilgrim costume is bullying? Really? Don't ya think that is carrying PC a little too far? What's next?

Seems you are setting up straw men and false dichotomies here.

Oops...did I just offend straw-men or Wizard of Oz fans by using that expression?!

Whatever happened to freedom of speech? I thought the Left championed that right. There was a time anyway...

[Divine Insight]

Now just a minute....wearing a Pilgrim costume is bullying? Really? Don't ya think that is carrying PC a little too far? What's next?

From what I read in the article it was the Native American costume that may have caused some people to have been offended. Not the Pilgrim costume.

Also, what's wrong with apologizing to someone who feels they have been offended?

I wouldn't say that any "bullying" has occurred in this situation. I don't think there was any intent to bully Native Americans here. It was clearly a well-intended choice of costume.

It would even be appropriate to ask the offended people to explain why they felt this was offensive as no offense was intended. She could have even stated that her intent was to "honor" native Americans.

And besides, how does Obama and Hillary get dragged into this?

Are you suggesting that Obama and Hillary might also be quick to offer an apology to Native Americans? If so, what's wrong with that? I think that is quite respectable.

What do you expect people do to? Act like Trump and threaten to deport any Native Americans who might be offended by anything he does or says?

Sorry, but if you're going to defend people who refuse to be polite and sensitive to others in favor of jerks who are just going to tell others to shove it where the sun don't shine, I think you are supporting the wrong agenda.

Just my opinion of course.

Which America would you rather live in. One where people offer respect to each other, or one where people are quick to tell the other guy to shove it?

I would prefer to live in a respectful America myself.

In fact, an America that follows the behavior of Donald Trump scares the beejesus out of me. What a horrible setback that would be. That would toss us back quite a few decades in terms of civil rights and mutual respect.

I was born and raised as a Christian. I may no longer believe in the religion today, but just the same if you ask me "What would Jesus do?". I think Jesus would totally renounce Donald Trump's behavior and support the behavior of Hillary and Obama, at least in terms of showing respect and love to their neighbors.

How does telling Native Americans to go jump in the lake if they don't like you wearing the sacred tribal costumes of their beloved Chiefs amount to loving your neighbor?

Isn't it bad enough that we came to America and stole their land from them and broke every treaty and promise we ever made to them. And now we're just going to wear the sacred wardrobe of their beloved Chiefs to party in?

I think there's something to be said for "Political Correctness". It's simply a recognition that we need to respect what is sacred to others.

And before you argue that Christianity should be respected as "sacred" too, keep in mind that Christianity is a highly proselytizing evangelizing religion that constantly accuses others of being immoral people if they refuse to allow the Christian evangelists to shove the religion down the throats of non-believers. Hardly a behavior that could be compared with Native Americans.

But on this topic my conclusion is as follows:

Trump's disregard for political correctness and total disrespect of others: No Thank You.

Obama and Hillary's support for political correctness and respect for others: Absolutely! They get my vote!

[Elijah John]

From what I read in the article it was the Native American costume that may have caused some people to have been offended. Not the Pilgrim costume.

Yet Hilary Duff felt compelled to apologize, for not doing anything wrong. Why do you think that is? Must be a reason for that.

Also, what's wrong with apologizing to someone who feels they have been offended?

Because it gets ridiculous after a while. Duff case in point. Why should folks feel they have to apologize for nothing to people who look for reasons to be offended? Lately, the Left is perpetually offended. Professional victims.

And the Left eats their own. Liberal Katy Perry was once accused of "cultural appropriation" for dressing as a Geisha in one of her videos or something. Katy the Clinton supporter getting blasted from the Left for one misstep.

Apparently "cultural appropriation" is a sin now, according the the PC Left.

And didn't the BLM movement try to intimidate Bernie Sanders of all people? Rushed the stage or something as I recall.

And speaking of intimidation and bullying, how about Hillary's hired thugs instigating violence at Trump rallies?

And speaking of Bernie Sanders, what do you think of the Democratic party rigging the "super delegates" in order to favor Hillary?

I wouldn't say that any "bullying" has occurred in this situation. I don't think there was any intent to bully Native Americans here. It was clearly a well-intended choice of costume.

I'm glad we agree on this anyway.

And besides, how does Obama and Hillary get dragged into this?

The atmosphere they perpetuate. Have you ever heard the left speak out against Campus speech codes or other PC behavior? Not since Bill Clinton...I haven't anyway.

Are you suggesting that Obama and Hillary might also be quick to offer an apology to Native Americans? If so, what's wrong with that? I think that is quite respectable

It's good to err on the side of civility, but apologizing for something they didn't do? I don't know how Obama or Clinton ever oppressed Native Americans. So I am not suggesting that either of them do that, and wish both would stop being so apologetic to the world for supposed American sins of the past.

What do you expect people do to? Act like Trump and threaten to deport any Native Americans who might be offended by anything he does or says?

That's the kind of straw man argument you sometimes make that I was referring to in my previous post.

Sorry, but if you're going to defend people who refuse to be polite and sensitive to others in favor of jerks who are just going to tell others to shove it where the sun don't shine, I think you are supporting the wrong agenda.

And that's the kind of false dichotmy that you sometimes make that I was referring to in my previous post.

It is not a matter of the extreme of Political Correctness, versus rude and impolite behavior. There is a middle ground. PC does not equate with politeness. PC college sudents who get into peoples faces are anything but polite. PC students who block traffic to get their way are rude, pure and simple.

Just my opinion of course.....
I would prefer to live in a respectful America myself.

So would I, I am not suggesting we don't. I just don't want to live in a paranoid, perpetually offended America.

In fact, an America that follows the behavior of Donald Trump scares the beejesus out of me. What a horrible setback that would be. That would toss us back quite a few decades in terms of civil rights and mutual respect.

I don't support Trump for his past behavior, nor his sometimes rude and inflammatory rhetoric. But rather for many (but not all) of his policies.

I was born and raised as a Christian. I may no longer believe in the religion today, but just the same if you ask me "What would Jesus do?". I think Jesus would totally renounce Donald Trump's behavior and support the behavior of Hillary and Obama, at least in terms of showing respect and love to their neighbors.

I think Trump renounces some of his past behavior too. He has shown some contrition.

How does telling Native Americans to go jump in the lake if they don't like you wearing the sacred tribal costumes of their beloved Chiefs amount to loving your neighbor?

No one has told them that.

Isn't it bad enough that we came to America and stole their land from them and broke every treaty and promise we ever made to them. And now we're just going to wear the sacred wardrobe of their beloved Chiefs to party in?

How long must we as a Nation atone for the sins of the past? I didn't steal anyone's land, and I doubt you did either. Also, Native Americans could choose to view wearing their garb as a compliiment. I think most Americans admire Native Americans.

I think there's something to be said for "Political Correctness". It's simply a recognition that we need to respect what is sacred to others.

I think you and others here idealize PC. That is not "simply" what it is, as I have attempted to demonstrate.

And before you argue that Christianity should be respected as "sacred" too, keep in mind that Christianity is a highly proselytizing evangelizing religion that constantly accuses others of being immoral people if they refuse to allow the Christian evangelists to shove the religion down the throats of non-believers. Hardly a behavior that could be compared with Native Americans.

Not a fan of Evangelism. I prefer persuasion...and even debate if it's done with civility, as it is done here on this site.

Trump's disregard for political correctness and total disrespect of others: No Thank You.

Obama and Hillary's support for political correctness and respect for others: Absolutely! They get my vote!

Politeness and PC should not be conflated. I with ya on the former, but not the latter.

[Divine Insight]

From what I read in the article it was the Native American costume that may have caused some people to have been offended. Not the Pilgrim costume.

Yet Hilary Duff felt compelled to apologize, for not doing anything wrong. Why do you think that is? Must be a reason for that.

So what?

Nobody ever said that Hilary Duff did anything "wrong". Her intentions may have been very well-meant. That's no reason to not apologize to people who were offended. An apology is not a confession of guilt, it's merely an acknowledgement that someone else was offended by something you may have done. Also to offer not to do it again because now you realize that it does offend people is also a great show of respect.

So by apologizing Hilary Duff was showing respect. Not admitting to intentional guilt of actually trying to offend anyone on purpose.

Also, what's wrong with apologizing to someone who feels they have been offended?

Because it gets ridiculous after a while. Duff case in point. Why should folks feel they have to apologize for nothing to people who look for reasons to be offended? Lately, the Left is perpetually offended. Professional victims.

So are you saying that Native Americans represent the "Left"?

And the Left eats their own. Liberal Katy Perry was once accused of "cultural appropriation" for dressing as a Geisha in one of her videos or something. Katy the Clinton supporter getting blasted from the Left for one misstep.

Apparently "cultural appropriation" is a sin now, according the the PC Left.

Why are you trying to blame this incident on the PC Left? This is a totally false accusation on your behalf. I'm quite sure that many Conservative Republicans support being respectful of other people. And wouldn't mind apologizing if they offended someone.

And didn't the BLM movement try to intimidate Bernie Sanders of all people? Rushed the stage or something as I recall.

First off, BLM is does not represent the political Left either. It represents a cultural group who feels that they are being racially abused by police authorities. I am not aware of the incident that you are referring to so I don't know what happened in that incident. But even a movement like BLM can have pockets of irate members who may not represent the larger movement. You certainly can't pin that on Hillary or Obama. Or the Left, for that matter. In fact, Bernie Sanders represented the Left, so you are suggesting that the Left was attacking the Left.

And speaking of intimidation and bullying, how about Hillary's hired thugs instigating violence at Trump rallies?

Hired thugs? I'm not aware of any "hired thugs" by Hillary. Sounds like another Alt-right conspiracy theory coming from the mouth of Donald Trump to me.

And speaking of Bernie Sanders, what do you think of the Democratic party rigging the "super delegates" in order to favor Hillary?

If you don't think similar garbage goes on in the Trump campaign I suggest that you are extremely naive. Politics isn't pretty for sure and I'm not claiming that Hillary is a saint, but I will claim that Donald Trump is far worse to be sure. He's proven it over the course of this year-long election cycle.

I wouldn't say that any "bullying" has occurred in this situation. I don't think there was any intent to bully Native Americans here. It was clearly a well-intended choice of costume.

I'm glad we agree on this anyway.

And I never did disagree with this. But that's no reason to start bullying them and being disrespectful toward them by refusing to apologize once you know that they have been offended.

And besides, how does Obama and Hillary get dragged into this?

The atmosphere they perpetuate. Have you ever heard the left speak out against Campus speech codes or other PC behavior? Not since Bill Clinton...I haven't anyway.

So what are you suggesting? That we should all follow the lead of Donald Trump and start openly mocking disabled people, fat shaming people, rating women on a scale of 1 to 10 based on their looks and the size of their breasts? And are we also supposed to follow his lead and start dismissing any non-white judges or other authorities as being unfit for their jobs because of their non-white heritage?

Just exactly what are you suggesting? That if Trump becomes president we can all suddenly start being rude to each other and make no apologies for it?

If that's the case, then I most certainly hope and pray that Trump does not win this presidency.

Are you suggesting that Obama and Hillary might also be quick to offer an apology to Native Americans? If so, what's wrong with that? I think that is quite respectable

It's good to err on the side of civility, but apologizing for something they didn't do?

But they did do something. They just didn't realize that it would be offensive before they did it. So they did it in innocence. They may have even been doing it with the positive hope that they were actually honoring the culture. They could still apologize for having done it. They could have even said that they actually meant to honor the Native Americans instead of insult them. However, Hilary Duff actually states in her apology that she hadn't thought about the possible implications prior to having done it. So apparently that was the truth. She just never gave it a though prior to doing it. And that's fine. She apologized for having offended anyone. What's wrong with that?

Are you suggesting that she should refuse to apologize to those who were offended?

I don't know how Obama or Clinton ever oppressed Native Americans. So I am not suggesting that either of them do that, and wish both would stop being so apologetic to the world for supposed American sins of the past.

I personally think they should have been far more apologetic to the rest of the world. Especially when Obama first became president after Bush. He should have immediately appologized to the entire world for America's invasion of Iraq. After all, we now know that it was a horrible mistake and that our very own intelligence agencies were in grave error. Saddam DID NOT have large stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction that our intelligence agencies claimed that he had.

Why shouldn't America apologize to the world when we make a mistake?

Had I been Obama my very first speech would have been to apologize to the world for the Bush Administration. Never mind being "PC", it would have just been the right thing to do.

What do you expect people do to? Act like Trump and threaten to deport any Native Americans who might be offended by anything he does or says?

That's the kind of straw man argument you sometimes make that I was referring to in my previous post.

How can you say that it's a strawman argument when Trump tries to dismiss an American Judge because his parents came from Mexico? He may not have suggested deporting the judge, but he certainly suggests that the Judge isn't worth respecting just because he has Mexican heritage.

Sorry, but if you're going to defend people who refuse to be polite and sensitive to others in favor of jerks who are just going to tell others to shove it where the sun don't shine, I think you are supporting the wrong agenda.

And that's the kind of false dichotmy that you sometimes make that I was referring to in my previous post.

It is not a matter of the extreme of Political Correctness, versus rude and impolite behavior. There is a middle ground. PC does not equate with politeness. PC college sudents who get into peoples faces are anything but polite. PC students who block traffic to get their way are rude, pure and simple.

It is not "PC" to block traffic in a protest. To the contrary it's actually illegal.

It seems to me that you just label anything to be "PC" that you object to and associate with the Left. Also, what about the college students who block traffic for issues that are clearly on the Right? Such as Pro-Life Demonstrations, etc. The political left aren't the only people who organize political protests.

How can you claim that all this behavior is both "PC" and only exhibited by the Left? The behavior you're talking about now is exhibited by everyone.

Also, in America people have the right to peaceful political protests. Are you suggesting that if Trump gets in our right to organize political protests will be stripped from us? That wouldn't be very American.

Just my opinion of course.....
I would prefer to live in a respectful America myself.

So would I, I am not suggesting we don't. I just don't want to live in a paranoid, perpetually offended America.

Well I don't see how following Trump's lead to publicly mock disable people, fat shame women and rate them on the size of their breasts or whether or not we think they are pretty or ugly is going to help anything.

I don't see where encouraging people to dismiss the authority of judges who aren't White Anglo-Saxon purebreds helps anything either. And if Trump has his way it will be legal to profile people based on race or religion. I don't see those as traits or behaviors we should want to follow.

In fact, an America that follows the behavior of Donald Trump scares the beejesus out of me. What a horrible setback that would be. That would toss us back quite a few decades in terms of civil rights and mutual respect.

I don't support Trump for his past behavior, nor his sometimes rude and inflammatory rhetoric. But rather for many (but not all) of his policies.

Well the "Policy" you are arguing for in this thread is to do away with "political correctness" and apparently tell anyone who might be offended to shove off for being too overly sensitive.

That's the policy YOU focused on in this thread.

I was born and raised as a Christian. I may no longer believe in the religion today, but just the same if you ask me "What would Jesus do?". I think Jesus would totally renounce Donald Trump's behavior and support the behavior of Hillary and Obama, at least in terms of showing respect and love to their neighbors.

I think Trump renounces some of his past behavior too. He has shown some contrition.

I don't see where he has shown any sincere remorse or concern. Every one of his so-called "apologies" sounds far more like an excuse to pass off what he did was actually OK. For example, his "apology" for the groping video was to simply claim that it was "just locker room talk". That's hardly an apology. That's more like an attempt to justify his behavior.

How does telling Native Americans to go jump in the lake if they don't like you wearing the sacred tribal costumes of their beloved Chiefs amount to loving your neighbor?

No one has told them that.

Exactly. Hilary Duff apologized. But you seem to feel that she should have refused to apologize (i.e. just tell them to go jump in the lake if they don't like it).

So it appears to me that you are the one who is suggesting that this is what they should have been told, instead of apologizing to them.

Isn't it bad enough that we came to America and stole their land from them and broke every treaty and promise we ever made to them. And now we're just going to wear the sacred wardrobe of their beloved Chiefs to party in?

How long must we as a Nation atone for the sins of the past?

IMHO? Forever! And even that wouldn't even come close to making up for the irreversible damage that has been done.

I didn't steal anyone's land, and I doubt you did either.

That doesn't free us from the facts of history. And besides, this isn't about you or I personally accepting "guilt" for history. All it requires is that you and I acknowledge and recognize that someone has been horribly wronged. Nobody is asking you or I to take personal responsibility for it. But collectively as a nation we necessarily must acknowledge our past.

Also, Native Americans could choose to view wearing their garb as a compliiment. I think most Americans admire Native Americans.

I'm sure that there are many Native Americans who may very well take it as a compliment. But that's no reason to apologize to any who do see it as being offensive.

I think there's something to be said for "Political Correctness". It's simply a recognition that we need to respect what is sacred to others.

I think you and others here idealize PC. That is not "simply" what it is, as I have attempted to demonstrate.

Well, you have failed to demonstrate to me that PC is anything other than an attempt to be polite and respectful on a large social scale.

And suggesting that we should look to Trump as a "role model" for how not to be PC is, IMHO, quite scary.

In fact, you seem to be suggesting that if Trump gets in that will be an automatic cue for many people to toss being PC right out the window. Not good IMHO.

And before you argue that Christianity should be respected as "sacred" too, keep in mind that Christianity is a highly proselytizing evangelizing religion that constantly accuses others of being immoral people if they refuse to allow the Christian evangelists to shove the religion down the throats of non-believers. Hardly a behavior that could be compared with Native Americans.

Not a fan of Evangelism. I prefer persuasion...and even debate if it's done with civility, as it is done here on this site.

Even "persuasion" is a form of evangelism. Debate, should not be thought of as "persuasion". To the contrary, the best outcome of debate is to seek TRUTH, not to persuade the opponent to a particular conclusion.

Trump's disregard for political correctness and total disrespect of others: No Thank You.

Obama and Hillary's support for political correctness and respect for others: Absolutely! They get my vote!

Politeness and PC should not be conflated. I with ya on the former, but not the latter.

Well, being PC is a social form of being respectful of others. It can also be another way of thinking of "diplomacy".

What would be the alternative to being "PC"? To just blurt out whatever you are thinking in the moment with total disregard to how the other person might take what you are saying?

Where's is that going to get you?

The first thing that will happen is that you will lose respect of the other person. And if you have offended them to the point where you refuse to even acknowledge that they have been offended and treat them with extreme disrespect you're surely going to cultivate animosity in them toward you.

This isn't good on a social level in general, it would only escalate animosity and violence. And it's certainly not going to work as a tool of diplomacy.

The very last thing we need is a president who's going to just try to dictate how things are going to be to the rest of the world with total disrespect toward foreign nations.

A president who doesn't understand the value and power of being PC would cause more world conflict that you could count.

And if Trump gets in that's no doubt precisely what will happen.

It's not a world I would care to live in. Not only would Trump incite Americans to disrespect each other, but he would have all the nations of the world disrespecting the USA.

I'm actually very glad that you brought this topic up to focus on this "policy" of Donald Trump. And it is a policy. He advocates (by example) how people should be disrespectful of each other. And that's the last thing we need in a president.

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 6 by Divine Insight]

You keep distorting my positons. I think it's because you are equating PC with politeness. That ain't the case. In fact in many cases, "Political Correctness" is just the opposite.

I say that you misrepresent because you suggest that I endorse Trumps boorish behavior, and sins of the past. I do not, and would not and it is unfair for you to suggest that I do, or I that would.

There is a happy medium between Trump's boorishness, and Clinton's kow-towing to the Left, pandering to their every grievance.

Both Clinton and Trump are unfortunate options. But given the two, I side with Trump because of his policies, and the fact that he has contempt for PC. Not because he can sometimes be rude, or that he has done and said outrageous things in the past.

Trump is a blunt instrument, he's far from perfect, but we need SOMEONE to overturn the tables in DC. Clinton is part of the establishment problem. And as Trump puts it, she is "Crooked Hillary" THAT much I agree with, because in this case, Trump's blunt rhetoric is accurate.

But it seems we are talking past each other. Maybe it's because we define PC differently, so it seems we will just have to agree to disagree.

Trump is pro-life, Hillary is for abortion on demand. That is an important issue for me, so I side with Trump, in spite of his rudeness, not because of it.

Trump wants to protect the rights of Catholics and Evangelicals, Hillary and her staff have contempt for both groups. So again, I side with Trump.

Obama brought a lawsuit against the Little Sisters of the Poor, I see no indication that Clinton differs with Obama on this issue. They are both hostile to religions institutions.

Trump wants to put America fist, Hillary does not seem to want that and considers the world's opinion more important than what is best for us.

Obama and Clinton both celebrate thugs like Michael Brown, Trump wants respect for our police and law and order.

Obama and Clinton both enforce the law selectively Obama suing Arizona for attempting to police their own borders, but at the same time supporting "sanctuary cities", which are technically against the law. Trump would build the wall, and defund sanctuary cities.

Hillary would INCREASE the importation of Syrian refugees five-fold, even at the risk of the safety of the American people. Trump would not risk American safety.

Obama risked American lives by importing Ebola patients to the US, instead of treating them in Africa.

Trump would not pay terrorist states like Iran millions of dollars, Obama did, Hillary seems to have no problem with that ransom.

Seems once again, American safety is always of secondary importance to Obama or Clinton. With Trump, American safety would be primary.

There are many rational reasons to support Trump over Hillary, which have nothing to do with his boorishness.

The Supreme Court too, Trump would seek to appoint more judges like the late-great Antonin Scalia, Clinton by contrast, would make a pro-choice litmus test for her appointees.

In sum, Trump has common sense, Hillary and Obama have elitist, unrealistic mindsets.

And so on...

[Divine Insight]

There is a happy medium between Trump's boorishness, and Clinton's kow-towing to the Left, pandering to their every grievance.

Giving proper consideration to every grievance is what our public servants are supposed to do.

Both Clinton and Trump are unfortunate options. But given the two, I side with Trump because of his policies, and the fact that he has contempt for PC. Not because he can sometimes be rude, or that he has done and said outrageous things in the past.

I side with Hillary because of her policies. I prefer the polices of Hillary and her administration. I would also much rather she is the one to appoint Supreme Court Justices.

I started to address your post point for point, but I erased that. Instead I'll just say that I totally disagree with all the polices you support and I favor the polices Hillary supports.

So apparently you and I do not want the same America. So you go vote for Trump and I'll go vote for Hillary and we'll just have to wait a few more days and see who wins.

[Elijah John]

There is a happy medium between Trump's boorishness, and Clinton's kow-towing to the Left, pandering to their every grievance.

Giving proper consideration to every grievance is what our public servants are supposed to do.

Both Clinton and Trump are unfortunate options. But given the two, I side with Trump because of his policies, and the fact that he has contempt for PC. Not because he can sometimes be rude, or that he has done and said outrageous things in the past.

I side with Hillary because of her policies. I prefer the polices of Hillary and her administration. I would also much rather she is the one to appoint Supreme Court Justices.

I started to address your post point for point, but I erased that. Instead I'll just say that I totally disagree with all the polices you support and I favor the polices Hillary supports.

So apparently you and I do not want the same America. So you go vote for Trump and I'll go vote for Hillary and we'll just have to wait a few more days and see who wins.

Fair enough. I think you hit on the crux of the matter. I agree Trump ain't the best messenger for several (but not all) of the reasons you cite.

But yeah, the policy differences both represent go well beyond personalities.

I think we all agree on this much though, this is and will be a very important election, especially with the Supreme Court at stake.

[Divine Insight]

I think we all agree on this much though, this is and will be a very important election, especially with the Supreme Court at stake.

The Supreme Court Justices are not sufficient reason to vote Trump in. But whatever.

On November 9th half of Americans are going to wake up in what they consider to be a country gone to hell, and the other half will be relieved. The only thing I predict is that if Trump wins that "relief" for Trump supporters will be extremely short-lived. They will soon discover that his polices simply aren't going to work at all, and when he tries to claim bankruptcy to hit the "reset button" like he did with his failing businesses he's going to quickly discover that it doesn't work that way when you run a country. And then what happens?