Evolutionary ignorance.

[DanieltheDragon]

Most creationists or intelligent design folks can not describe evolution nor do they have a basic understanding of evolution. Part of this is education where they were not taught evolution.

There are plenty of resources available, here is one such free course

https://www.khanacademy.org/science/bio ... -selection

Why do creationists avoid learning about evolution?

Is there a fear that if they take the time to be a good student and learn about it, it will make sense?

[benchwarmer]

[Replying to post 48 by benchwarmer]

I find this debate tactic tiring honestly. Whenever anyone makes a point that solidly refutes your argument, you claim you've never seen it and need it to be shown to you.

Spirit

πνεῦμα
pneuma
pnyoo'-mah
a current of air, that is, breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively a spirit, that is, (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, daemon, or (divine) God, ChristÂ’s spirit, the Holy spirit: - ghost, life, spirit (-ual, -ually), mind.

1. Spirit doesn't always mean demon, as in this case.

I'm grasping at straws? So you admit the bible says a spirit can cause sickness? You get a small point for pointing out it might not be a demon (though you haven't shown it's not by your very definition), but you in the end agree the Bible is blaming disease on invisible agents.

[*]The ability of the supernatural to make someone sick is not unreal.

Based on which empirical evidence? Do doctors normally prescribe exorcists for some illnesses?

[*]A human making another human sick, does not automatically make that human responsible for human sicknesses.[/list]

Who said anything about humans making humans sick? Do you even know what causes disease? We're not talking about transmission of it.

I just wonder when you will stop grabbing at straws, but I doubt it will end, since you have nothing with substance to prove the Bible wrong, nor prove the supernatural does not exist.

I and many others have pointed out mistakes in the Bible. You're willingness to overlook them or create word salads to apologize for them doesn't make them go away.

Of course no one can prove the supernatural doesn't exist. Neither can anyone prove it does. I'm sure you'll happily only quote the first sentence and claim victory.

[theStudent]

[Replying to post 48 by benchwarmer]

I find this debate tactic tiring honestly. Whenever anyone makes a point that solidly refutes your argument, you claim you've never seen it and need it to be shown to you.

Spirit

πνεῦμα
pneuma
pnyoo'-mah
a current of air, that is, breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively a spirit, that is, (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, daemon, or (divine) God, ChristÂ’s spirit, the Holy spirit: - ghost, life, spirit (-ual, -ually), mind.

1. Spirit doesn't always mean demon, as in this case.

I'm grasping at straws? So you admit the bible says a spirit can cause sickness? You get a small point for pointing out it might not be a demon (though you haven't shown it's not by your very definition), but you in the end agree the Bible is blaming disease on invisible agents.

[*]The ability of the supernatural to make someone sick is not unreal.

Based on which empirical evidence? Do doctors normally prescribe exorcists for some illnesses?

[*]A human making another human sick, does not automatically make that human responsible for human sicknesses.[/list]

Who said anything about humans making humans sick? Do you even know what causes disease? We're not talking about transmission of it.

I just wonder when you will stop grabbing at straws, but I doubt it will end, since you have nothing with substance to prove the Bible wrong, nor prove the supernatural does not exist.

I and many others have pointed out mistakes in the Bible. You're willingness to overlook them or create word salads to apologize for them doesn't make them go away.

Of course no one can prove the supernatural doesn't exist. Neither can anyone prove it does. I'm sure you'll happily only quote the first sentence and claim victory.

You are free to point out what you think are, or what you would like to be mistakes, until judgment day, and you are free to complain that I am not agreeing with your baseless assumptions, and scoffing. It's a free country.
Just because you cannot provide proof to your claims, doesn't mean I should feel sorry for you, and agree with you. If you had any solid arguments, nobody could refute it, not even the greatest trickster alive. So you fail because you are simply grabbing at straws.

You cannot prove that the Bible says that demons are responsible for illness.
You cannot prove that the supernatural cannot make a person ill. In fact you cannot even prove whether the supernatural exists or not.
It has already been proven - in more ways than one - that the supernatural does exist. It's not our fault that persons prefer to shut their eyes to the evidence, and say, "We must see him to believe." Yet they can't even see what they named "Dark energy" or "Dark Matter", but they go around saying, "Dark matter exists! Dark Energy exists!"
And if that's ridiculous. Consider how unreasonable this is... They never saw another universe, nor an end to this one, yet they say, "We believe - never saw one before, cannot and have not proven there is/are - We believe they are multiverses, and our universe is just one of them." Reasonable? As the late MJ sang... "I don't know whether to laugh or cry."

The Bible shows that the supernatural can and do make persons sick, but it does not say that that is the reason mankind gets sick, or die.
Man is capable of making man sick by deliberately introducing viruses or dangerous chemicals into his body. If man can do that why would it be so hard for the supernatural?
But does it mean, every sick person was deliberately injected with viruses?
Do we ran around saying that evidence shows that man get sick by wicked mankind?

Perhaps you and your partners need to go and study some of Jehovah's Witnesses' publications before you come up with such flimsy arguments.
If we thought that the Bible teaches that mankind's sicknesses are a direct result of demons, why would we bother going to the doctor? Why would any of Jehovah's Witnesses bother being doctors. It makes no sense.

I'm sorry B, but these sort of flimsy arguments are just child's play.

On the other hand, evolution is so ridiculously absurd, that any Theist on these forums can provide evidence against it, that you can't even deny, and when any solid evidence is presented against it, you either stay silent and retreat for a few days, only to resurface again as though nothing happened, or you go around in circles without even addressing the point directly.
If evolution is so true as you claim, you would have no problem laying down those arguments, and standing up to any bashing they receive. But you don't.

Here... Keep dealing with the truth, as it keeps surfacing.
Bible Possibly Written Centuries Earlier, Text Suggests

[benchwarmer]

You are free to point out what you think are, or what you would like to be mistakes, until judgment day, and you are free to complain that I am not agreeing with your baseless assumptions, and scoffing. It's a free country.

Well gosh thank you. Though I'd like to point out that your overuse of LOL and smiley faces probably puts you in the lead in the scoff department.

Just because you cannot provide proof to your claims, doesn't mean I should feel sorry for you, and agree with you. If you had any solid arguments, nobody could refute it, not even the greatest trickster alive. So you fail because you are simply grabbing at straws.

Opinion noted.

You cannot prove that the Bible says that demons are responsible for illness.

No, but you proved spirits are. Not sure how that really changes anything.

You cannot prove that the supernatural cannot make a person ill. In fact you cannot even prove whether the supernatural exists or not.

You cannot prove a pink unicorn doesn't live in my backyard. So what? You can't prove the supernatural does exist, so why base arguments on their existence?

It has already been proven - in more ways than one - that the supernatural does exist.

Really, I guess we all missed it then. I grant that you've proved it to yourself somehow, but the scientific community and most skeptics disagree with you.

It's not our fault that persons prefer to shut their eyes to the evidence, and say, "We must see him to believe." Yet they can't even see what they named "Dark energy" or "Dark Matter", but they go around saying, "Dark matter exists! Dark Energy exists!"

Rather than build new strawmen, you could learn what Dark energy is really about:

https://science.nasa.gov/astrophysics/f ... ark-energy

Notice the use of 'More is unknown than is known'. You continue to portray science as something it isn't.

And if that's ridiculous. Consider how unreasonable this is... They never saw another universe, nor an end to this one, yet they say, "We believe - never saw one before, cannot and have not proven there is/are - We believe they are multiverses, and our universe is just one of them." Reasonable? As the late MJ sang... "I don't know whether to laugh or cry."

Same issue as above. You paint hypotheses as if scientists are running around proclaiming truth. They tend to leave that sort of tactic to theists.

The Bible shows that the supernatural can and do make persons sick, but it does not say that that is the reason mankind gets sick, or die.

So you admit the Bible says spirits can make people sick. Got it. Now if only the Bible were a credible source of medical information we would be all set.

Man is capable of making man sick by deliberately introducing viruses or dangerous chemicals into his body. If man can do that why would it be so hard for the supernatural?

Other than the fact that the supernatural is not a proven entity? At this point you can say it can do whatever you like and can't prove one way or the other if it's true. I can make up wild theories too you know. I prefer not to though as I like to stick with reality.

Perhaps you and your partners need to go and study some of Jehovah's Witnesses' publications before you come up with such flimsy arguments.

Ah, the irony is sweet. We get it, you are promoting Jehovah's Witness as the repository of truth. Good luck with that.

If we thought that the Bible teaches that mankind's sicknesses are a direct result of demons, why would we bother going to the doctor? Why would any of Jehovah's Witnesses bother being doctors. It makes no sense.

No idea. You asked for a scripture reference, one was given. Interpret how you see fit.

I'm sorry B, but these sort of flimsy arguments are just child's play.

Thank you for the underhanded insult. Let's try to stick to actual arguments and let readers decide whose holds any merit.

On the other hand, evolution is so ridiculously absurd, that any Theist on these forums can provide evidence against it, that you can't even deny, and when any solid evidence is presented against it, you either stay silent and retreat for a few days, only to resurface again as though nothing happened, or you go around in circles without even addressing the point directly.

Actually I can deny that. Many theists believe in evolution. I used to be one. I can go dig up some quotes from other theists if you really need me to, but I think most realize that statement was simply wrong.

I'm sorry I don't respond immediately to your every word. I do have other things going on in my life.

If evolution is so true as you claim, you would have no problem laying down those arguments, and standing up to any bashing they receive. But you don't.

But I have, so also wrong. Nice try though.

[theStudent]

[Replying to post 53 by benchwarmer]

Actually I can deny that. Many theists believe in evolution. I used to be one. I can go dig up some quotes from other theists if you really need me to, but I think most realize that statement was simply wrong.

At least there was something meaninful in this post.
Thank you. Correction - evolution is so ridiculously absurd, that [strike]any[/strike] some Theist on these forums can provide evidence against it, that you can't even deny

[H.sapiens]

[Replying to post 53 by benchwarmer]

Actually I can deny that. Many theists believe in evolution. I used to be one. I can go dig up some quotes from other theists if you really need me to, but I think most realize that statement was simply wrong.

At least there was something meaninful in this post.
Thank you. Correction - evolution is so ridiculously absurd, that [strike]any[/strike] some Theist on these forums can provide evidence against it, that you can't even deny

Please, provide some actual evidence against evolution that will hold up.

[KenRU]

You cannot prove that the Bible says that demons are responsible for illness.

Mark 5:1-20 ESV:
They came to the other side of the sea, to the country of the Gerasenes. And when Jesus had stepped out of the boat, immediately there met him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit. He lived among the tombs. And no one could bind him anymore, not even with a chain, for he had often been bound with shackles and chains, but he wrenched the chains apart, and he broke the shackles in pieces. No one had the strength to subdue him. Night and day among the tombs and on the mountains he was always crying out and cutting himself with stones. ...

Luke 4:33-36 ESV:
And in the synagogue there was a man who had the spirit of an unclean demon, and he cried out with a loud voice, “Ha! What have you to do with us, Jesus of Nazareth? Have you come to destroy us? I know who you are—the Holy One of God.� But Jesus rebuked him, saying, “Be silent and come out of him!� And when the demon had thrown him down in their midst, he came out of him, having done him no harm. And they were all amazed and said to one another, “What is this word? For with authority and power he commands the unclean spirits, and they come out!�

Matthew 17:18 ESV:
And Jesus rebuked the demon, and it came out of him, and the boy was healed instantly.

Matthew 12:22 ESV:
Then a demon-oppressed man who was blind and mute was brought to him, and he healed him, so that the man spoke and saw.

Proven: The bible DOES say that demonic possessions cause illness/sickness etc.

Can anyone really deny this? There were many more quotes I could post if necessary.

-all the best