Paradise on Earth

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brianbbs67
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Re: Paradise on Earth

Post by brianbbs67 »

onewithhim wrote:
brianbbs67 wrote: [Replying to post 1032 by JehovahsWitness]

The least in the Kingdom are still in the Kingdom. Why not try to be greater?
Why would anyone want to be greater? Jesus taught that everyone was a brother and equal. There's no one actually greater than another.
Mathew 5:17-19 is to what I refer. 19 in particular, "Whosoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments(the law) and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whosoever does and teaches them(the law), shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

Its a kingdom.

Eloi
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Post by Eloi »

Daniel, like the rest of loyal servants of Jehovah in antiquity, never had the hope to go to heavens to inherited the promises of the Kingdom of God.

Dan 12:13 “And as for you yourself, go toward the end; and you will rest, but you will stand up for your lot at the end of the days.�

IaLoaou
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Re: Paradise given...

Post by IaLoaou »

JehovahsWitness wrote:
kcplusdc@yahoo.com wrote: God gave us a crack at paradise once already, which we fouled up almost immediately. Management was definitely not amused and kindly showed us the door.
God didn't show us the door, he showed Adam and Eve the door.

Paradise was God's idea (not theirs) and he never fails at anything. Adam and Eve failed to respect management and were given their marching orders. Management didn't resign because of their foolishness. That would be like the Highway Patrol giving up on speed limits because someone was given a ticket!
kcplusdc@yahoo.com wrote: No reason to think that history wouldnt repeat itself if God gave us another one.

There is EVERY reason think that history wouldnt repeat itself if God gave us another one. Those reasons are Abel, Noah, Abraham, Job... and MILIONS of others thag have proved by their lives they will never renounce their integrity and wholeheartedly uphold Jehovah God's souvereignty. The three young Hebrews were willing to be burnt alive rather than disobey God, you think dont they would have resisted a piece of fruit?
But the main reason to believe "history wouldnt repeat itself" is because of what JESUS achieved, God won't have to let it.
Defying his rulership and living to tell the tale was a once off deal, anyone that tries that in the coming paradise will not be allowed to spoil our party (to mix my metaphors).






JW



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Luke 23:43
And Jesus said unto him,
Verily I say unto thee,
To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Paradise is not on this Earth.

True or false?

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onewithhim
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Post by onewithhim »

IaLoaou wrote: Luke 23:43
And Jesus said unto him,
Verily I say unto thee,
To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Paradise is not on this Earth.

True or false?
A comma means a lot in a sentence. People say it doesn't, but it really does. It can change the meaning of something entirely. One example:

"Let's eat, Grandma!"
"Let's eat Grandma!"

There were no punctuation marks or any commas in the original Greek, just like there are none in Hebrew. No capital letters either. So Jesus could very well have said to the thief:

"Verily I say unto thee today, thou shalt be with me in Paradise."


Totally different idea, isn't it? And one compatible with the rest of the Bible. Just to mention two people who wrote of the earth becoming a paradise where humans would live forever----Isaiah and David.

Isaiah wrote (when the Messiah will have taken over rulership of the earth):

"The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf, and the young lion, and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them....They shall not hurt nor destroy all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea." (Isaiah 11:6-9, KJV)

David wrote:

"For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth....The righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell therein forever." (Psalm 37: 9,29, KJV)


It looks pretty clear to me. The earth is still the place where God wants people to live.

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Tcg
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Post by Tcg »

onewithhim wrote:
IaLoaou wrote: Luke 23:43
And Jesus said unto him,
Verily I say unto thee,
To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Paradise is not on this Earth.

True or false?
A comma means a lot in a sentence. People say it doesn't, but it really does. It can change the meaning of something entirely. One example:

"Let's eat, Grandma!"
"Let's eat Grandma!"

There were no punctuation marks or any commas in the original Greek, just like there are none in Hebrew. No capital letters either. So Jesus could very well have said to the thief:

"Verily I say unto thee today, thou shalt be with me in Paradise."
Right, because a person hanging on a cross next to the person making the claim would be confused about when it was the claim was being made.

Jesus, are you making that claim today, or some other day? Pure absurdity.


Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

- American Atheists


Not believing isn't the same as believing not.

- wiploc


I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.

- Irvin D. Yalom

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onewithhim
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Re: Paradise on Earth

Post by onewithhim »

brianbbs67 wrote:
onewithhim wrote:
brianbbs67 wrote: [Replying to post 1032 by JehovahsWitness]

The least in the Kingdom are still in the Kingdom. Why not try to be greater?
Why would anyone want to be greater? Jesus taught that everyone was a brother and equal. There's no one actually greater than another.
Mathew 5:17-19 is to what I refer. 19 in particular, "Whosoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments(the law) and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whosoever does and teaches them(the law), shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

Its a kingdom.
Jesus emphasized his high regard for the Law given to Moses by stating what he said at Matthew 5:19. While the Law covenant was in force, it was an expression of God's will for his people. Teaching things contrary to the commandments that some may have viewed as even "least" in importance would be apostasy against God. (See James 2:10,11.) The Law was given to lead Israel to the Messiah---the principal ruler in God's Kingdom. (Galatians 3:24; Isaiah 11:1-5; Daniel 7:13,14) So....as far as getting into God's Kingdom was concerned, persons who broke God's commands would "would be called 'least.'" They would not get into the Kingdom at all. (Matt.21:43; Luke 13:28)

On the other hand, those who observed the Law to the best of their ability would be "called 'great' in relation to the Kingdom." They would be the kind of persons who accepted Jesus as the Messiah and who subsequently were called to share Kingdom rule with him. (Luke 22:28-30; Romans 8:16,17)

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onewithhim
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Post by onewithhim »

[Replying to post 1093 by Tcg]

Sorry, Tcg, but what Jesus said is not absurdity. There are examples of such statements in other parts of the Bible.

Moses to Israel:

"I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish..." (Deuteronomy 30:18, KJV)

The New American Standard Bible says: "I declare to you TODAY that you shall surely perish."


Not so absurd, is it, to think that Jesus said that he was telling the man "today," or, "here and now," as other versions have it.

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Tcg
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Post by Tcg »

onewithhim wrote: [Replying to post 1093 by Tcg]

Sorry, Tcg, but what Jesus said is not absurdity.

You don't need to apologize. Your reading is absurd nonetheless.


Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

- American Atheists


Not believing isn't the same as believing not.

- wiploc


I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.

- Irvin D. Yalom

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onewithhim
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Post by onewithhim »

Tcg wrote:
onewithhim wrote: [Replying to post 1093 by Tcg]

Sorry, Tcg, but what Jesus said is not absurdity.

You don't need to apologize. Your reading is absurd nonetheless.


Tcg
Did you read my post? Did you see where other scriptures had the same wording as that that Jesus used? How is it that you still say that my reading is absurd?

brianbbs67
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Re: Paradise on Earth

Post by brianbbs67 »

onewithhim wrote:
brianbbs67 wrote:
onewithhim wrote:
brianbbs67 wrote: [Replying to post 1032 by JehovahsWitness]

The least in the Kingdom are still in the Kingdom. Why not try to be greater?
Why would anyone want to be greater? Jesus taught that everyone was a brother and equal. There's no one actually greater than another.
Mathew 5:17-19 is to what I refer. 19 in particular, "Whosoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments(the law) and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whosoever does and teaches them(the law), shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

Its a kingdom.
Jesus emphasized his high regard for the Law given to Moses by stating what he said at Matthew 5:19. While the Law covenant was in force, it was an expression of God's will for his people. Teaching things contrary to the commandments that some may have viewed as even "least" in importance would be apostasy against God. (See James 2:10,11.) The Law was given to lead Israel to the Messiah---the principal ruler in God's Kingdom. (Galatians 3:24; Isaiah 11:1-5; Daniel 7:13,14) So....as far as getting into God's Kingdom was concerned, persons who broke God's commands would "would be called 'least.'" They would not get into the Kingdom at all. (Matt.21:43; Luke 13:28)

On the other hand, those who observed the Law to the best of their ability would be "called 'great' in relation to the Kingdom." They would be the kind of persons who accepted Jesus as the Messiah and who subsequently were called to share Kingdom rule with him. (Luke 22:28-30; Romans 8:16,17)
What makes you think the covenant is not in affect? It can't be Jesus, as he never claimed this.

The new covenant can't be fully in affect either, as the law is not written on eveeryone's hearts.

Here's the kicker many ignore. The new will be the old written in our hearts with Isreal(and Goyim who follow with them) being allowed back into covenant thru the death of Christ. Welcome to the Covenant. God said it was a law for all our generations and for those who sojourn with us. God is the same today, tomorrow and yesterday. He does not change. Neither would His rules for this world commonly called the OT. Torah means instructions, literally.

Jesus made no christians. He called Israel back to God. And allowed others to join them. Acts 15:20-21"but that we write to them to abstain from things polluted by idols, from temple prostition(sexual immorality), from things strangled and from blood."

"For Moses has had throughout the generations those who preach him in every city, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath>"

The gentiles were given Noahide law to follow as they learned Moses
. This was step one of conversion. Get them away from the Temple prostitutes and sacrificial blood drinking practices.

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