Paradise on Earth

[onewithhim]

When I learned that the Bible speaks of a restored Garden of Eden and the restoration of mankind to the perfection and endless life that Adam forfeited, I was thrilled. Who doesn't want to keep living on this beautiful earth, with our loved ones, and being able to do all the things we love to do---endlessly?

If God said to you today, "When do you want to die?" would you say "now!!"? I don't think very many people would say that.

We CAN live forever here on Earth. The Bible tells us that we can.

Matthew 5:5
Psalm 37:9-11,29

[tam]

Peace again to you!

Peace to you,

Peace to you onewithhim and Rose2020, and to you all,

[Replying to onewithhim in post #1]

I would say 'now'. Because this is a terrible world. I look forward to be gone to heaven and can look forward to return when God has transformed this into an earthly paradise, once Christ has returned. If it is His will for me of course.

What is the point, please tell me, of going to heaven

For the marriage/union with the Lamb (with Christ), to be changed "in a twinkling" (1Corinth 15:52); and to be able to come before the Most Holy One.

and returning to Earth?

Because the Kingdom is upon the earth, as are the people living IN that Kingdom. Because the Bride will be REIGNING in that Kingdom, as king-priests, for at least a thousand years. Because the Bride likely has loved ones dwelling upon the earth. Why in the world would the Bride be prevented from visiting loved ones who are on the earth? Why would the Bride have LESS freedom than angels do now, who are able to access both heaven and earth?

If angels are permitted to enter both heaven and earth, why would Christ and His Bride be permitted to enter only heaven?

Because Jesus is a mighty SPIRIT person in heaven and remains that way in the SPIRIT environment that he has found himself back in, where his Father is a SPIRIT, as are all the angels.

And yet - as stated - angels can move between the physical and spiritual realms. Angels can be in heaven and also take form and be on earth. Yet for some reason, you believe that Christ and His Bride (humans) will be confined to the spiritual realm, unable to do what angels can do even now.

Why would the Bride not be permitted to see loved ones on the earth? Do they not get to have the joy of being reunited with their loved ones?

Why would the Bride (and Christ) have less freedom than the angels do even now?

Why would the Bride not also be on the earth, where she reigns with Christ in the Kingdom that is upon the earth?

And his "Bride" is made up of people who have been CHANGED into spirit persons when they went to heaven, and will remain spirit persons, as Jesus and his Father are. There is no need to go back to the earth for any reason.

I just listed multiple reasons. Freedom; loved ones; to reign (as kings and priests) in the Kingdom that is upon the earth.

They can affect the earth from heaven, and will do so.
New Jerusalem "comes down" from heaven only in the sense that it influences Earth from heaven,

That's the WTS company line, but that is not what Revelation describes as happening. Nor is it what Christ describes in the sheep and the goats parable.

as His organization has always done when Jehovah saw fit to interact with men here.

What organization? Sometimes it was just one man who had faith and listened to God (such as Abraham did). There was no organization involved in the communication between God and Abraham. Or between God and Noah. Or between God and Adam/Eve. The reason there was a mediator (Moses) between Israel and God is because Israel did not want to deal with God directly; they were too afraid and they asked to go through Moses.

Even then - and after - God often sent angels to the earth to communicate directly with men, and He sent His Son. That Son is the mediator between man and God. Not an organization.


Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

The Kingdom of God will have its eternal headquarters in heaven, ruling OVER the earth, not ON it. God has always had an organization, in heaven. He is the author of peace. There cannot be anything but chaos when there is no organization.

Having organization and being AN organization are not the same thing. Of course God is organized. But there was no organization involved in the communication between God and Abraham, or Noah, or Adam/Eve. Or even between God and Moses. This is why I asked what organization you were referring to, because God did not use an organization to communicate with those men (and women); and Christ does not require an organization to communicate with His Bride. Christ is Himself the mediator between man and God, the living Word of God.

So that it is: man <-> Christ <-> God

Not: man <-> organization <-> Christ <-> God

We don't know if those in heaven will be able to communicate with their loved ones on Earth---this remains to be seen.

Yes we do...or at least we SHOULD be able to know this.

Love. God is love. Do you think God does not know that we would want to communicate with and see our loved ones (regardless of where?) Of course He knows this about us. Why in the world would the Bride be prevented from communicating with/seeing their loved ones? Why would everyone on earth have that blessing, except God's own children? How does that make sense?

When we reach perfection here on Earth and have made our stand with Jehovah after the 1,000 years, we will certainly be able to speak with Jehovah one-to-one, and perhaps our loved ones in heaven.

Certainly with "Jehovah" and perhaps our loved ones? Perhaps? So that perhaps the Bride and their loved ones on the earth will never speak to one another again, never see one another again, for all eternity? How does that make sense?


Lets just recap a bit.

First, the WTS creates two different classes of Christians and then teaches that only some may eat the flesh and drink the blood of Christ. That cannot be true because Christ said that anyone may eat His flesh and drink His blood, and unless one does so, one has no life in them (John 6:48-51, 53-56). Neither did the apostles teach it, neither is that ever stated in the bible.

This is based on their 'two hope theology'... dividing Christians into two classes (some who are the Bride/Church/Brothers of Christ and some who are NOT the Bride, NOT the Church, and NOT the brothers of Christ). But again, Christ did not teach this. Neither did the apostles, nor is that written. So we have error upon error.

And don't forget that the WTS also teaches that Christ does not speak to people today (even though Christ said that His sheep would LISTEN to His voice, that He had more to call who would listen to His voice and follow Him, and the bible gives us examples of this very thing happening after His death, resurrection and ascension)... so what can their interpretations be other than the interpretations of men?




Peace again to you and to you all,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #2543]

I'm sure you are correct. We shall certainly know soon enough.

We will see the fulfillment of prophecy in due time but nobody can have faith in something they are unsure about. True Christians know what God's kingdom is, where it is and what it will do for mankind, only then can they obey Jesus command to preach about it.

Not everybody will listen, and certainly non-Christians , atheists and those without any spirituality will take a "we'll wait and see" attutude, but those that love truth will care enough seek to learn the details about Gods kingdom, the only hope for mankind.

"Thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth... " - JESUS CHRIST

JW

[Tcg]

True Christians know what God's kingdom is,

Yes, and of course that is the definition, or at least one of the many, of a "True Christian." And let's guess, those who don't know aren't "True Christians." And let's guess further, those "True Christians" attend Kingdom Halls and not churches. What a surprising definition.


Tcg

[tam]

May you all have peace!

There is something else that I need to share here. I am not sure if it has been shared somewhere in this thread or not, but I am reminded in the spirit of what is IN Paradise.

To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.


The Tree of Life is in Paradise.

The Tree (of Life) is my dear Lord, Christ Jaheshua.


HE is the One from whom we must eat in order to have life in us, in order to live forever. (John 6:32-58)

“I am the bread of life. Your ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness, yet they died. But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which anyone may eat and not die. I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”


“Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them. 57 Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. 58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.”


He is also the Life (John 14:6; 11:25):


“I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life.”

“I am the Resurrection and the Life.”


God did not give us two different things from which we may eat and live forever. It has always been Christ, the Tree of Life (and therefore, the Life).


Peace again to you, and to you all,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[myth-one.com]

God did not give us two different things from which we may eat and live forever. It has always been Christ, the Tree of Life (and therefore, the Life).

That's absolutely correct. The Tree of Life was available to mankind until they sinned. Mankind was expelled from the Garden of Eden lest they eat from the Tree of Life and live forever.

The man Jesus was not around during the Garden of Eden, but the Word was.

Jesus is not now in the Kingdom of God as a man, because man cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. We must be born again of the Spirit (God) as a spiritual bodied being to enter the Kingdom of God. The Word has always been in the Kingdom of God. Jesus was a man in the earthly kingdom of man for about 33 years.

Those who believe in Jesus as their Savior from the wages of their sins will gain access to the Tree of Life when The Word returns with our reward.

[tam]

Peace to you,

God did not give us two different things from which we may eat and live forever. It has always been Christ, the Tree of Life (and therefore, the Life).

That's absolutely correct. The Tree of Life was available to mankind until they sinned. Mankind was expelled from the Garden of Eden lest they eat from the Tree of Life and live forever.

Okay.

The man Jesus was not around during the Garden of Eden, but the Word was.

Same person/being.

(though His name is Jaheshua - meaning JAH saves/savior of JAH)

Jesus is not now in the Kingdom of God as a man,

Jaheshua is no longer in the form of a man (He became flesh for just a little while), but He is still Himself.

because man cannot inherit the Kingdom of God.

The verse states:

Now I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 1Corinth 15:50

It does not state that man cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. Only that flesh and blood - meaning THIS flesh and blood (that has sin and death in it, the bodies that we currently inhabit) - cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. Because this flesh and its blood have death in it, and will die. The perishable (which must be clothed with the imperishable). The new body with its blood (holy spirit) has only LIFE in it. We receive the new body, but we are still mankind.

How else would the tent of God be with men, as is written in Revelation?

I saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying: “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man, and He will dwell with them. They will be His people, and God Himself will be with them as their God. 4‘He will wipe away every tear from their eyes,’ and there will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the former things have passed away.” Rev 21:2-4



Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[myth-one.com]

The man Jesus was not around during the Garden of Eden, but the Word was.

Same person/being.

Definition of person: a human being regarded as an individual.

No persons were around during the Garden of Eden creation until the sixth day when Adan & Eve were created.

Jesus is not now in the Kingdom of God as a man.

Jaheshua is no longer in the form of a man (He became flesh for just a little while), but He is still Himself.

Then stop saying that He's a man.

Man cannot inherit the Kingdom of God.

The verse states:

Now I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 1Corinth 15:50

It does not state that man cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. Only that flesh and blood - meaning THIS flesh and blood (that has sin and death in it, the bodies that we currently inhabit) - cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. Because this flesh and its blood have death in it, and will die. The perishable (which must be clothed with the imperishable). The new body with its blood (holy spirit) has only LIFE in it.

That which is born of the flesh is flesh.

Only that which is born of the Spirit may enter the Kingdom of God.

We receive the new body, but we are still mankind.

Nope. Mankind is born of the flesh. And that which is born of the flesh is flesh.

Believers must be born again of the Spirit to inherit the Kingdom of God. And that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. We will be equal unto the angels -- not men or women.

How else would the tent of God be with men, as is written in Revelation?

I saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying: “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man, and He will dwell with them. They will be His people, and God Himself will be with them as their God. 4‘He will wipe away every tear from their eyes,’ and there will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the former things have passed away.” Rev 21:2-4

That's describing the Second Coming.

Believers will be resurrected to everlasting spiritual bodied life at the Second Coming. And 1000 years later all dead nonbelievers will be resurrected. So there will be humans alive on the earth for over a 1000 years.

After judgment, when the last living human is born again of the Spirit or cast into the lake of fire, the age of man will be over.

[onewithhim]

I must say, a "person" is any individual that has the attributes of a Higher Power, like humans, such as the ability to love, exercise power, justice and wisdom. Of course this can relate to the Higher Power Himself. I believe that the Bible even refers to God as a "Person." The New World Translation renders many verses as refering to the "person" of Jehovah, yet the KJV renders the word for "person" as "presence." Interestingly, the KJV translates Exodus 15:3 as: "The LORD is a MAN of war." Therefore, it shows that Jehovah, called a "man," can be referred to as a "person." It follows logically.

This is not to say that Jehovah is literally a MAN. It is to say that he can be considered a PERSON. A "man" is a person, and Jehovah can be looked at as a "Person."

[JehovahsWitness]

In relation to this thread topic, I see no reason why folk who want to, cannot stay within this particular Experiential Reality, help make it more sustainable by introducing a righteous system and cleaning up the pollution of the wicked system and -given that machinery is so advanced, perhaps that will be used in a proper fashion - one in which nature can gently be shaped and nurtured according to the specifications of the righteous...

Indeed, managed properly this our planet earth will be a wonderful place to live. (Not sure why you refer to "Experiential Reality, ")

[William]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #2559]

"Experiential Reality, "

That is what it is. "A reality we are experiencing". To differentiate as the realities are differentiated. Such as in "Heaven" and "The Physical Universe" are.