Paradise on Earth

[onewithhim]

When I learned that the Bible speaks of a restored Garden of Eden and the restoration of mankind to the perfection and endless life that Adam forfeited, I was thrilled. Who doesn't want to keep living on this beautiful earth, with our loved ones, and being able to do all the things we love to do---endlessly?

If God said to you today, "When do you want to die?" would you say "now!!"? I don't think very many people would say that.

We CAN live forever here on Earth. The Bible tells us that we can.

Matthew 5:5
Psalm 37:9-11,29

[2ndpillar2]

When I learned that the Bible speaks of a restored Garden of Eden and the restoration of mankind to the perfection and endless life that Adam forfeited, I was thrilled. Who doesn't want to keep living on this beautiful earth, with our loved ones, and being able to do all the things we love to do---endlessly?

If God said to you today, "When do you want to die?" would you say "now!!"? I don't think very many people would say that.

We CAN live forever here on Earth. The Bible tells us that we can.

Matthew 5:5
Psalm 37:9-11,29

Well, with respect to the kingdom set up on earth for the combined Judah and Ephraim, Israel (EZ 37), under the kingship of David, that seems to be in the form of the "millennium" (Revelation 20:4), which is generally limited to 1000 years. Now after the millennium, the last judgment, at that time, there will be a new heaven and earth (Rev 21), whereas Jerusalem will not need a "sun or a moon". If you are a werewolf, then you may feel out of place, having no moon. Or if you are a sun worshiper, then you might want to stay out of Jerusalem. As for who is outside the gates, well, that would be the liars, murderers, etc. (Rev 22:15). The prophets of the OT say that the revived Judah (Joel 3:1-2), after the judgment of the nations/Gentiles, will have hills which flow with milk, and mountains that drip sweet wine. But that is after "Egypt"/Gentiles becomes a desolate wilderness, as stated in Jeremiah 30:11.

[onewithhim]

When I learned that the Bible speaks of a restored Garden of Eden and the restoration of mankind to the perfection and endless life that Adam forfeited, I was thrilled. Who doesn't want to keep living on this beautiful earth, with our loved ones, and being able to do all the things we love to do---endlessly?

If God said to you today, "When do you want to die?" would you say "now!!"? I don't think very many people would say that.

We CAN live forever here on Earth. The Bible tells us that we can.

Matthew 5:5
Psalm 37:9-11,29

Well, with respect to the kingdom set up on earth for the combined Judah and Ephraim, Israel (EZ 37), under the kingship of David, that seems to be in the form of the "millennium" (Revelation 20:4), which is generally limited to 1000 years. Now after the millennium, the last judgment, at that time, there will be a new heaven and earth (Rev 21), whereas Jerusalem will not need a "sun or a moon". If you are a werewolf, then you may feel out of place, having no moon. Or if you are a sun worshiper, then you might want to stay out of Jerusalem. As for who is outside the gates, well, that would be the liars, murderers, etc. (Rev 22:15). The prophets of the OT say that the revived Judah (Joel 3:1-2), after the judgment of the nations/Gentiles, will have hills which flow with milk, and mountains that drip sweet wine. But that is after "Egypt"/Gentiles becomes a desolate wilderness, as stated in Jeremiah 30:11.

You miss the meaning of "the new Jerusalem" and "the Jerusalem above." Jerusalem ceases to be the important arena for worship, but the "Jerusalem above" is the new focus. It is spiritual Jerusalem. (Galatians 4:24-26) Everything that is written in the OT comes to be about spiritual Jerusalem, the "Jerusalem above." The physical Jerusalem failed to remain in God's favor because they rejected the invitation to accept the Messiah and reign with him, and they even killed him. To Jerusalem Jesus said: "The kingdom of God will be taken from you and be given to a nation producing its fruits." (Matthew 21:43) That "nation" is what Peter mentioned in his first letter, to Christians in Asia:

"You [Christians] are a 'chosen race,' a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for special possession....For you were once not a people, but are now God's people." (I Peter 2:9,10) So Jesus' true followers, Christians earthwide, make up that holy nation that replaced physical Jerusalem.

The description of New Jerusalem in Revelation is symbolic, speaking of the beauty of Christ and his "bride." His bride is not a literal city. (Revelation 21:2)

[2ndpillar2]

When I learned that the Bible speaks of a restored Garden of Eden and the restoration of mankind to the perfection and endless life that Adam forfeited, I was thrilled. Who doesn't want to keep living on this beautiful earth, with our loved ones, and being able to do all the things we love to do---endlessly?

If God said to you today, "When do you want to die?" would you say "now!!"? I don't think very many people would say that.

We CAN live forever here on Earth. The Bible tells us that we can.

Matthew 5:5
Psalm 37:9-11,29

Well, with respect to the kingdom set up on earth for the combined Judah and Ephraim, Israel (EZ 37), under the kingship of David, that seems to be in the form of the "millennium" (Revelation 20:4), which is generally limited to 1000 years. Now after the millennium, the last judgment, at that time, there will be a new heaven and earth (Rev 21), whereas Jerusalem will not need a "sun or a moon". If you are a werewolf, then you may feel out of place, having no moon. Or if you are a sun worshiper, then you might want to stay out of Jerusalem. As for who is outside the gates, well, that would be the liars, murderers, etc. (Rev 22:15). The prophets of the OT say that the revived Judah (Joel 3:1-2), after the judgment of the nations/Gentiles, will have hills which flow with milk, and mountains that drip sweet wine. But that is after "Egypt"/Gentiles becomes a desolate wilderness, as stated in Jeremiah 30:11.

You miss the meaning of "the new Jerusalem" and "the Jerusalem above." Jerusalem ceases to be the important arena for worship, but the "Jerusalem above" is the new focus. It is spiritual Jerusalem. (Galatians 4:24-26) Everything that is written in the OT comes to be about spiritual Jerusalem, the "Jerusalem above." The physical Jerusalem failed to remain in God's favor because they rejected the invitation to accept the Messiah and reign with him, and they even killed him. To Jerusalem Jesus said: "The kingdom of God will be taken from you and be given to a nation producing its fruits." (Matthew 21:43) That "nation" is what Peter mentioned in his first letter, to Christians in Asia:

"You [Christians] are a 'chosen race,' a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for special possession....For you were once not a people, but are now God's people." (I Peter 2:9,10) So Jesus' true followers, Christians earthwide, make up that holy nation that replaced physical Jerusalem.

The description of New Jerusalem in Revelation is symbolic, speaking of the beauty of Christ and his "bride." His bride is not a literal city. (Revelation 21:2)

The "new Jerusalem" is to come from heaven to earth. (Rev 21:2), where "nothing unclean and no one who practices abominations and ling, shall ever come into it" (Rev 21:27). Well, that hasn't happened as of 12:00 P.M. today.

[onewithhim]

When I learned that the Bible speaks of a restored Garden of Eden and the restoration of mankind to the perfection and endless life that Adam forfeited, I was thrilled. Who doesn't want to keep living on this beautiful earth, with our loved ones, and being able to do all the things we love to do---endlessly?

If God said to you today, "When do you want to die?" would you say "now!!"? I don't think very many people would say that.

We CAN live forever here on Earth. The Bible tells us that we can.

Matthew 5:5
Psalm 37:9-11,29

Well, with respect to the kingdom set up on earth for the combined Judah and Ephraim, Israel (EZ 37), under the kingship of David, that seems to be in the form of the "millennium" (Revelation 20:4), which is generally limited to 1000 years. Now after the millennium, the last judgment, at that time, there will be a new heaven and earth (Rev 21), whereas Jerusalem will not need a "sun or a moon". If you are a werewolf, then you may feel out of place, having no moon. Or if you are a sun worshiper, then you might want to stay out of Jerusalem. As for who is outside the gates, well, that would be the liars, murderers, etc. (Rev 22:15). The prophets of the OT say that the revived Judah (Joel 3:1-2), after the judgment of the nations/Gentiles, will have hills which flow with milk, and mountains that drip sweet wine. But that is after "Egypt"/Gentiles becomes a desolate wilderness, as stated in Jeremiah 30:11.

You miss the meaning of "the new Jerusalem" and "the Jerusalem above." Jerusalem ceases to be the important arena for worship, but the "Jerusalem above" is the new focus. It is spiritual Jerusalem. (Galatians 4:24-26) Everything that is written in the OT comes to be about spiritual Jerusalem, the "Jerusalem above." The physical Jerusalem failed to remain in God's favor because they rejected the invitation to accept the Messiah and reign with him, and they even killed him. To Jerusalem Jesus said: "The kingdom of God will be taken from you and be given to a nation producing its fruits." (Matthew 21:43) That "nation" is what Peter mentioned in his first letter, to Christians in Asia:

"You [Christians] are a 'chosen race,' a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for special possession....For you were once not a people, but are now God's people." (I Peter 2:9,10) So Jesus' true followers, Christians earthwide, make up that holy nation that replaced physical Jerusalem.

The description of New Jerusalem in Revelation is symbolic, speaking of the beauty of Christ and his "bride." His bride is not a literal city. (Revelation 21:2)

The "new Jerusalem" is to come from heaven to earth. (Rev 21:2), where "nothing unclean and no one who practices abominations and ling, shall ever come into it" (Rev 21:27). Well, that hasn't happened as of 12:00 P.M. today.

Yes, that is true. We are waiting for it to happen, for the Kingdom to take over the earth after all governments of men have been eradicated. It will remain in heaven where Jesus and his co-rulers are and will remain there. It could not fit onto this earth, as described in Revelation. It would have sides that extended way out into space. The descriptions are not for a literal city, but analogous for a spiritual "city" which is the Bride of Christ. They are not a city. "With your blood [Christ's] you bought persons for God out of every tribe and tongue and nation and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth." (Rev.5:9,10) John said, "I saw also the holy city, New Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God and prepared as a bride adorned for her husband." (Rev.21:2) That is the Bride of Christ, his co-rulers, as you can see they are not literally a city.

Christ and his government will "come down," meaning it will give its attention to the earth and mankind, just as Jehovah "came down" in times past. Not literally, but with all actions being a benefit to the earth. Jehovah said to Solomon: "...I shall indeed reside in the middle of the sons of Israel...". (I Kings 6:13) Did He actually come down and live on the earth? No. But He was with them, from the heavens.

Jehovah also said--showing that He was "with" Israel even though He remained in heaven--"You must not defile the land in which you are dwelling, in the midst of which I am residing; for I Jehovah am residing in the midst of the sons of Israel." (Numbers 35:34)

"[Jehovah] has removed the judgments upon you. He has turned away your enemy, the King of Israel, Jehovah, is in the midst of you." (Zephaniah 3:14)

Yet Jehovah remained in heaven where He still is. Solomon said that Jehovah's place of dwelling was in heaven. (I KIngs 8:49) Also, we know that Jesus said he was "with" his followers until the end of the system of things, though we know that he has been at the right hand of God in heaven. (Matthew 28:20; Hebrews 1:1-3)

To sum it up, the New Jerusalem is Christ's Bride of those who are taken from the earth to reign with him in heaven. It is not meant to show the details of a literal city. It will rule from heaven for a thousand years, over the earth. (Revelation 20: 4b and 6b)

About this kingdom that Jesus and his co-rulers will rule over the earth:

"In the days of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which will never be destroyed, and that kingdom will not be left for another people; it will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, but it will itself endure forever." (Daniel 2:44, NASB)

"A child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; And the government will rest on his shoulders;...There will be no end to the increase of his government or of peace." (Isaiah 9:6,7, NASB)

[Wootah]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #2994]

Christ and his government will "come down," meaning it will give its attention to the earth and mankind, just as Jehovah "came down" in times past. Not literally, but with all actions being a benefit to the earth. Jehovah said to Solomon: "...I shall indeed reside in the middle of the sons of Israel...". (I Kings 6:13) Did He actually come down and live on the earth? No. But He was with them, from the heavens.

That is awful eisegesis. Bible says God comes down. OWH says Bible is wrong. Is this your belief or a JW belief? Can God come down to earth? Has God ever come down to earth? Can you clarify please?

[onewithhim]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #2994]

Christ and his government will "come down," meaning it will give its attention to the earth and mankind, just as Jehovah "came down" in times past. Not literally, but with all actions being a benefit to the earth. Jehovah said to Solomon: "...I shall indeed reside in the middle of the sons of Israel...". (I Kings 6:13) Did He actually come down and live on the earth? No. But He was with them, from the heavens.

That is awful eisegesis. Bible says God comes down. OWH says Bible is wrong. Is this your belief or a JW belief? Can God come down to earth? Has God ever come down to earth? Can you clarify please?

I explained what it means for God or Christ to "come down." Please read my post before accusing me of being wrong. JWs know that Jehovah had been "dwelling with the sons of Israel" in the past, and I gave the scriptural references. He did not actually literally come here to the earth did he? I think if he did, the planet would've quickly become a cinder. So God "came down" in another sense. Just as Jesus said that he would be with us until the end of the system of things. (Matt.28:20) Yet we know Jesus is in heaven with the Father. (Heb.8:1) So what you are saying is that the Bible contradicts itself. How can Jesus or Jehovah be with us if they are in heaven? Look again at my posts.

[Wootah]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #2994]

Christ and his government will "come down," meaning it will give its attention to the earth and mankind, just as Jehovah "came down" in times past. Not literally, but with all actions being a benefit to the earth. Jehovah said to Solomon: "...I shall indeed reside in the middle of the sons of Israel...". (I Kings 6:13) Did He actually come down and live on the earth? No. But He was with them, from the heavens.

That is awful eisegesis. Bible says God comes down. OWH says Bible is wrong. Is this your belief or a JW belief? Can God come down to earth? Has God ever come down to earth? Can you clarify please?

I explained what it means for God or Christ to "come down." Please read my post before accusing me of being wrong. JWs know that Jehovah had been "dwelling with the sons of Israel" in the past, and I gave the scriptural references. He did not actually literally come here to the earth did he? I think if he did, the planet would've quickly become a cinder. So God "came down" in another sense. Just as Jesus said that he would be with us until the end of the system of things. (Matt.28:20) Yet we know Jesus is in heaven with the Father. (Heb.8:1) So what you are saying is that the Bible contradicts itself. How can Jesus or Jehovah be with us if they are in heaven? Look again at my posts.

I am reading you correctly. Your subsequent words confirm it.

Can God come down to earth physically or not?

If you say ' yes, but the earth would be a cinder' you are denying God's omnipotence. Do you know what God can and cannot do?

is this JW doctrine?

[2ndpillar2]

When I learned that the Bible speaks of a restored Garden of Eden and the restoration of mankind to the perfection and endless life that Adam forfeited, I was thrilled. Who doesn't want to keep living on this beautiful earth, with our loved ones, and being able to do all the things we love to do---endlessly?

If God said to you today, "When do you want to die?" would you say "now!!"? I don't think very many people would say that.

We CAN live forever here on Earth. The Bible tells us that we can.

Matthew 5:5
Psalm 37:9-11,29

Well, with respect to the kingdom set up on earth for the combined Judah and Ephraim, Israel (EZ 37), under the kingship of David, that seems to be in the form of the "millennium" (Revelation 20:4), which is generally limited to 1000 years. Now after the millennium, the last judgment, at that time, there will be a new heaven and earth (Rev 21), whereas Jerusalem will not need a "sun or a moon". If you are a werewolf, then you may feel out of place, having no moon. Or if you are a sun worshiper, then you might want to stay out of Jerusalem. As for who is outside the gates, well, that would be the liars, murderers, etc. (Rev 22:15). The prophets of the OT say that the revived Judah (Joel 3:1-2), after the judgment of the nations/Gentiles, will have hills which flow with milk, and mountains that drip sweet wine. But that is after "Egypt"/Gentiles becomes a desolate wilderness, as stated in Jeremiah 30:11.

You miss the meaning of "the new Jerusalem" and "the Jerusalem above." Jerusalem ceases to be the important arena for worship, but the "Jerusalem above" is the new focus. It is spiritual Jerusalem. (Galatians 4:24-26) Everything that is written in the OT comes to be about spiritual Jerusalem, the "Jerusalem above." The physical Jerusalem failed to remain in God's favor because they rejected the invitation to accept the Messiah and reign with him, and they even killed him. To Jerusalem Jesus said: "The kingdom of God will be taken from you and be given to a nation producing its fruits." (Matthew 21:43) That "nation" is what Peter mentioned in his first letter, to Christians in Asia:

"You [Christians] are a 'chosen race,' a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for special possession....For you were once not a people, but are now God's people." (I Peter 2:9,10) So Jesus' true followers, Christians earthwide, make up that holy nation that replaced physical Jerusalem.

The description of New Jerusalem in Revelation is symbolic, speaking of the beauty of Christ and his "bride." His bride is not a literal city. (Revelation 21:2)

The "new Jerusalem" is to come from heaven to earth. (Rev 21:2), where "nothing unclean and no one who practices abominations and ling, shall ever come into it" (Rev 21:27). Well, that hasn't happened as of 12:00 P.M. today.

Yes, that is true. We are waiting for it to happen, for the Kingdom to take over the earth after all governments of men have been eradicated. It will remain in heaven where Jesus and his co-rulers are and will remain there. It could not fit onto this earth, as described in Revelation. It would have sides that extended way out into space. The descriptions are not for a literal city, but analogous for a spiritual "city" which is the Bride of Christ. They are not a city. "With your blood [Christ's] you bought persons for God out of every tribe and tongue and nation and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth." (Rev.5:9,10) John said, "I saw also the holy city, New Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God and prepared as a bride adorned for her husband." (Rev.21:2) That is the Bride of Christ, his co-rulers, as you can see they are not literally a city.

Christ and his government will "come down," meaning it will give its attention to the earth and mankind, just as Jehovah "came down" in times past. Not literally, but with all actions being a benefit to the earth. Jehovah said to Solomon: "...I shall indeed reside in the middle of the sons of Israel...". (I Kings 6:13) Did He actually come down and live on the earth? No. But He was with them, from the heavens.

Jehovah also said--showing that He was "with" Israel even though He remained in heaven--"You must not defile the land in which you are dwelling, in the midst of which I am residing; for I Jehovah am residing in the midst of the sons of Israel." (Numbers 35:34)

"[Jehovah] has removed the judgments upon you. He has turned away your enemy, the King of Israel, Jehovah, is in the midst of you." (Zephaniah 3:14)

Yet Jehovah remained in heaven where He still is. Solomon said that Jehovah's place of dwelling was in heaven. (I KIngs 8:49) Also, we know that Jesus said he was "with" his followers until the end of the system of things, though we know that he has been at the right hand of God in heaven. (Matthew 28:20; Hebrews 1:1-3)

To sum it up, the New Jerusalem is Christ's Bride of those who are taken from the earth to reign with him in heaven. It is not meant to show the details of a literal city. It will rule from heaven for a thousand years, over the earth. (Revelation 20: 4b and 6b)

About this kingdom that Jesus and his co-rulers will rule over the earth:

"In the days of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which will never be destroyed, and that kingdom will not be left for another people; it will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, but it will itself endure forever." (Daniel 2:44, NASB)

"A child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; And the government will rest on his shoulders;...There will be no end to the increase of his government or of peace." (Isaiah 9:6,7, NASB)

You are getting ahead of yourself. The LORD will have Israel as his sanctuary, in the land given to Jacob/Israel, after he has rejoined Judah/Jews and Ephraim/Israel (Ez 37), given them a new heart and spirit, and clean them (Ez 36), and they will keep His statutes and ordinances. (Ezekiel 37) The "King" will then rule from Jerusalem, whereas the survivors of the nations/Gentiles will all come to bow down to the king every year on the feast of Booths, or if they don't, they will receive no rain. (Zechariah 14:16). As for the "saints and the beloved city", during the millennium (Rev 20:4), they will be on earth, and at the end, Gog & Magog will gather around them for war, and be destroyed by fire that came from heaven. (Revelation 20:7-9) As for premillennial, if not prepared and have to go back for their coats, even the "elect" will be in a bad situation, and if the LORD did not cut the great tribulation short for the elect, no one would survive. I am thinking that you have not gotten any part of this story correct. That includes the 144,000 being from the tribes of Israel, or that none of the 144,000 had a lie on their lips. That would not be the case for the JWs in general. The "covenant of peace" comes after the LORD has rejoined Judah/Jews and Ephraim/Israel on the land given to Jacob/Israel (Ezekiel 37:22-28).

[onewithhim]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #2994]

Christ and his government will "come down," meaning it will give its attention to the earth and mankind, just as Jehovah "came down" in times past. Not literally, but with all actions being a benefit to the earth. Jehovah said to Solomon: "...I shall indeed reside in the middle of the sons of Israel...". (I Kings 6:13) Did He actually come down and live on the earth? No. But He was with them, from the heavens.

That is awful eisegesis. Bible says God comes down. OWH says Bible is wrong. Is this your belief or a JW belief? Can God come down to earth? Has God ever come down to earth? Can you clarify please?

I explained what it means for God or Christ to "come down." Please read my post before accusing me of being wrong. JWs know that Jehovah had been "dwelling with the sons of Israel" in the past, and I gave the scriptural references. He did not actually literally come here to the earth did he? I think if he did, the planet would've quickly become a cinder. So God "came down" in another sense. Just as Jesus said that he would be with us until the end of the system of things. (Matt.28:20) Yet we know Jesus is in heaven with the Father. (Heb.8:1) So what you are saying is that the Bible contradicts itself. How can Jesus or Jehovah be with us if they are in heaven? Look again at my posts.

I am reading you correctly. Your subsequent words confirm it.

Can God come down to earth physically or not?

If you say ' yes, but the earth would be a cinder' you are denying God's omnipotence. Do you know what God can and cannot do?

is this JW doctrine?

We don't have a doctrine that says that Jehovah cannot do all things. It is from the power of reason that we are able to gain an understanding of what God can and cannot do. He could not come to Earth literally, for the earth would evaporate. He cannot die, and that is a no-brainer. If He died there would be no more life, since He is the Source of life. The Bible says of Jehovah: "For with you is the source of life; by light from you we can see light." (Psalm 36:9) Jehovah also cannot lie. He is totally righteous, without any failing. The Scripture also says: "...it is impossible for God to lie." (Hebrews 6:18) And it is my own reasoning that God cannot create a mountain that is too high for Him to climb over, or a sea so wide He cannot cross over it.

God cannot come down here physically. Solomon said to Jehovah: "Will God truly dwell upon the earth? Look! The heavens, yes, the heaven of the heavens, themselves cannot contain you..." (I Kings 8:27)

And Jehovah's own words to Moses: "You are not able to see my face, because no man may see me and live." (Exodus 33:20) What would the point be for Him to come down here, just to destroy humans? It couldn't be helped. He is too magnificent to come here to this little dot of a planet.

So God sent His Son to the earth to "stand in" for Him and tell humans about Him. "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared Him." (John 1:18, KJV)

So JWs are not wrong for saying that there are things that God cannot do. The Scriptures themselves portray this as being so, as I have posted.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #2999]
Can God come down to Earth physically? No. See the posts above.