YHWH

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Wootah
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YHWH

Post by Wootah »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0p2ZqRCipX4

Y - the hand
H - reveals
W - the nail
H - reveals

How is anyone that believes YHWH is God able to negate the evidence above that YHWH is Jesus?

https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/je ... -is-yahweh

YHWH is the name above all names correct?

Philippians 2:9-11 says — Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.

Anyone want to directly confront both pieces of evidence?
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

Member Notes: https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/ ... hp?t=33826

Looking for head to head debates, especially on contradictions or the Trinity. PM me your topic.

"Why is everyone so quick to reason God might be petty. Now that is creating God in our own image :)."

bjs
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Post by bjs »

[Replying to post 2 by PinSeeker]


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Elijah John
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Re: YHWH

Post by Elijah John »

Wootah wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0p2ZqRCipX4

Y - the hand
H - reveals
W - the nail
H - reveals

How is anyone that believes YHWH is God able to negate the evidence above that YHWH is Jesus?

https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/je ... -is-yahweh

YHWH is the name above all names correct?

Philippians 2:9-11 says — Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.

Anyone want to directly confront both pieces of evidence?
The Tetragrammaton is not the actual name, you are reading too much into the letters. The name does not mean "the hand reveals the nail reveals". Only the letters seem to. The name means something more akin to "I AM that I AM". Or "I will be what I will be".

And if Jesus is YHVH, then why did he say of the Father "hallowed be thy name"? Instead of something like "hallowed be our name", or "hallowed be my name" or "hallowed be Christ's name". If Jesus is YHVH, what is the Father's name?

Also, where exactly did YHVH give Jesus a name above every other including his own? Chapter and verse please. Just because Paul says so? Any Gospel writer or OT writer record YHVH giving the Messiah a name above every other name? The passage Paul alludes to here is from Isaiah, and it refers to YHVH, not Jesus. Paul lifted and twisted the passage and applied it to Jesus. Revisionism pure and simple.
My theological positions:

-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.

I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.

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marco
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Re: YHWH

Post by marco »

Wootah wrote:
Y - the hand
H - reveals
W - the nail
H - reveals

How is anyone that believes YHWH is God able to negate the evidence above that
This has the substance of superstition; it the same sort of claim that is made when people look at horoscopes. Of course it is not difficult to take four letters and build something from them. The hand wasn't pierced by nails in any case, else Christ would have fallen; the wrist was. The word reveals, mentioned twice, reveals nothing. It is silly to suggest that hand and nail represent Christ. Cloak and sandal might as well or bread and wine.

Here's evidence that Jesus was Satan, again an acrostic:

Saviour, Atonement, Trinity, Ascension, Nativity. Can anyone deny that this means Jesus was Satan?
Wootah wrote:

YHWH is Jesus?

Philippians 2:9-11 says — Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.
Nobody in the Bible has said Jesus and YHW are the same being; they are not. Paul in his usual pretence at being a heavenly prophet is talking about the word Jesus, supposedly meaning saviour. Since nowadays South American footballers bear that name we can hardly suppose that every knee bows before them though they might be admired for scoring goals. Let us remind ourselves that we live in the 21st century, not in the time of pietistic Paul who was surrounded by gods of all sizes.

If we want to accept the Trinity then the God Jesus addresses, Yahweh, is the Father and he is not. He never claimed to be.

Wootah
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Re: YHWH

Post by Wootah »

Elijah John wrote: The Tetragrammaton is not the actual name, you are reading too much into the letters. The name does not mean "the hand reveals the nail reveals". Only the letters seem to. The name means something more akin to "I AM that I AM". Or "I will be what I will be".
There are many levels and layers. But it is simply incredible to have a story that spans thousands of years and for Jesus to die on a cross with nail-pierced hands and to discover that the name of God YHWH reveals that Jesus was God all along. You have to give it up to God for being amazing. Pause and reflect on it.
And if Jesus is YHVH, then why did he say of the Father "hallowed be thy name"? Instead of something like "hallowed be our name", or "hallowed be my name" or "hallowed be Christ's name". If Jesus is YHVH, what is the Father's name?
God showing us how to worship him is fine by me. Jesus as man taught us how to worship God.
Also, where exactly did YHVH give Jesus a name above every other including his own? Chapter and verse please. Just because Paul says so? Any Gospel writer or OT writer record YHVH giving the Messiah a name above every other name? The passage Paul alludes to here is from Isaiah, and it refers to YHVH, not Jesus. Paul lifted and twisted the passage and applied it to Jesus. Revisionism pure and simple.
It's the Bible mate. I'm not the one who picks and chooses what they like. If you don't like it don't refer to it. What are we to think after the miracles of Jesus including the torn curtain, the resurrection, the ascension. Paul didn't even work it out himself until God woke him up on the road to Damascus and made him think about how Jesus in the Bible from beginning to end.

It can just as easily be said that revisionism is what you are doing and that accusation without evidence has no weight.
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

Member Notes: https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/ ... hp?t=33826

Looking for head to head debates, especially on contradictions or the Trinity. PM me your topic.

"Why is everyone so quick to reason God might be petty. Now that is creating God in our own image :)."

Wootah
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Posts: 7474
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:16 am

Re: YHWH

Post by Wootah »

[Replying to post 4 by marco]

You can easily do a little research on Hebrew and the pictograms behind each letter. This isn't made up after the fact, it's discovered in the light of the reality of Jesus.
Saviour, Atonement, Trinity, Ascension, Nativity. Can anyone deny that this means Jesus was Satan?
I don't think the English language is relevant. But I do believe in 'as above, so below' and many elements of Christianity have a perverted opposite in Hell.
Nobody in the Bible has said Jesus and YHW are the same being; they are not. Paul in his usual pretence at being a heavenly prophet is talking about the word Jesus, supposedly meaning saviour. Since nowadays South American footballers bear that name we can hardly suppose that every knee bows before them though they might be admired for scoring goals. Let us remind ourselves that we live in the 21st century, not in the time of pietistic Paul who was surrounded by gods of all sizes.

If we want to accept the Trinity then the God Jesus addresses, Yahweh, is the Father and he is not. He never claimed to be.
YHWH is the name of God. When the Father is in the scene He is YHWH, when the Son is in the scene He is YHWH when the Spirit is in the scene He is YHWH.
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

Member Notes: https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/ ... hp?t=33826

Looking for head to head debates, especially on contradictions or the Trinity. PM me your topic.

"Why is everyone so quick to reason God might be petty. Now that is creating God in our own image :)."

Athetotheist
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Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2019 5:24 pm

Re: YHWH

Post by Athetotheist »

Wootah wrote:
Elijah John wrote: The Tetragrammaton is not the actual name, you are reading too much into the letters. The name does not mean "the hand reveals the nail reveals". Only the letters seem to. The name means something more akin to "I AM that I AM". Or "I will be what I will be".
There are many levels and layers. But it is simply incredible to have a story that spans thousands of years and for Jesus to die on a cross with nail-pierced hands and to discover that the name of God YHWH reveals that Jesus was God all along. You have to give it up to God for being amazing. Pause and reflect on it.
And if Jesus is YHVH, then why did he say of the Father "hallowed be thy name"? Instead of something like "hallowed be our name", or "hallowed be my name" or "hallowed be Christ's name". If Jesus is YHVH, what is the Father's name?
God showing us how to worship him is fine by me. Jesus as man taught us how to worship God.
Also, where exactly did YHVH give Jesus a name above every other including his own? Chapter and verse please. Just because Paul says so? Any Gospel writer or OT writer record YHVH giving the Messiah a name above every other name? The passage Paul alludes to here is from Isaiah, and it refers to YHVH, not Jesus. Paul lifted and twisted the passage and applied it to Jesus. Revisionism pure and simple.
It's the Bible mate. I'm not the one who picks and chooses what they like. If you don't like it don't refer to it. What are we to think after the miracles of Jesus including the torn curtain, the resurrection, the ascension. Paul didn't even work it out himself until God woke him up on the road to Damascus and made him think about how Jesus in the Bible from beginning to end.

It can just as easily be said that revisionism is what you are doing and that accusation without evidence has no weight.
I once saw the god Odin fly overhead in the form of a raven. And don't ask me to explain how I know it was Odin and not an ordinary bird. What are we to think after the stories connecting him to ravens? You have to give it up to Odin for being amazing. Pause and reflect on it.

Can you prove that Odin has never appeared as a raven? (Keep in mind that accusation without evidence has no weight.)

Athetotheist
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Re: YHWH

Post by Athetotheist »

Wootah wrote: [Replying to post 4 by marco]

You can easily do a little research on Hebrew and the pictograms behind each letter. This isn't made up after the fact, it's discovered in the light of the reality of Jesus.
Well, where did you do the research?

Elijah John
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Location: New England

Re: YHWH

Post by Elijah John »

Wootah wrote:
It's the Bible mate. I'm not the one who picks and chooses what they like. If you don't like it don't refer to it.
Sure you do. As do all Pauline Christians. You side with Paul and his blood theology over the prophets who preached against blood. Such as Hosea (whom Jesus quotes) "I desire mercy NOT sacrifice". Not "in addition to" sacrifice. And there are many more examples which demonstrate that YHVH does not want blood to give Himself permission to forgive.
It can just as easily be said that revisionism is what you are doing and that accusation without evidence has no weight.
Evidence cited and alluded to above. Many more verses in the OT and even in the NT which demonstrate that YHVH has no use for blood in order to give Himself permission to forgive. Human or animal blood not required.

If I'm the one engaging in revisionism as you claim, so are most Jews of today. They agree with Maimonides who argued that YHVH never needed nor wanted blood, but only tolerated blood sacrifice as a transitional step in the process of enlightenment, from primitive paganism to true worship of the Living God.

Maimonides agreed with Micah, Hosea, Isaiah, Jeremiah and the other prophets who taught that YHVH has no use for blood sacrifice.
Last edited by Elijah John on Sun Mar 22, 2020 4:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
My theological positions:

-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.

I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.

Elijah John
Savant
Posts: 12117
Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2013 8:23 pm
Location: New England

Re: YHWH

Post by Elijah John »

Athetotheist wrote:
Wootah wrote: [Replying to post 4 by marco]

You can easily do a little research on Hebrew and the pictograms behind each letter. This isn't made up after the fact, it's discovered in the light of the reality of Jesus.
Well, where did you do the research?
From what little I do know about the Hebrew letters, I think he is right about the meaning of the individual letters and their associated imagery. But the meaning of the Name itself does not support his argument.
My theological positions:

-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.

I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.

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