Who is happier, the most or least religious?

[TheBeardedDude]

This is a thread about happiness and religiousness around the globe as a way of assessing what countries are better off, the most or least religious ones?

Happiest countries on Earth according to the World Happiness Report Update 2016 from the Sustainable Development Solutions Network for the UN. (http://www.cnn.com/2...nited-nations/)

Top ten:
1) Denmark
2) Switzerland
3) Iceland
4) Norway
5) Finland
6) Canada
7) Netherlands
8) New Zealand
9) Australia
10) Sweden

Bottom ten:
1) Burundi
2) Syria
3) Togo
4) Afghanistan
5) Benin
6) Rwanda
7) Guinea
8) Liberia
9) Tanzania
10) Madagascar

Now let's compare the most and least religious countries and then find the rank of religiousness for the previously mentioned 20. (sources: http://www.worldatla...-the-world.html and http://www.worldatla...the-world.html)

Least religious:
1) China (7% religious, 83rd happiness)
2) Japan (13% religious, 53rd happiness)
3) Estonia (16% religious, 72nd happiness)
4) Sweden (19% religious, 10th happiness)
5) Denmark (19% religious, 1st happiness)
6) Czech Republic (23% religious, 27th happiness)
7) Hong Kong (24% religious, 75th happiness)
8) Netherlands (24% religious, 7th happiness)
9) United Kingdom (30% religious, 23rd happiness)
10) Vietnam (34% religious, 96th ranking happiness)

Average happiness ranking: 44.7
Max: 96th
Min: 1st

Most religious
1) Niger (100% religious, 103rd happiness)
2) Sri Lanka (99% religious, 117th happiness)
3) Malawi (99% religious, 132nd religious)
4) Indonesia (99% religious, 70th happiness)
5) Yemen (99% religious, 147th happiness)
6) Thailand (94% religious, 33rd happiness)
7) Armenia (93% religious, 121st happiness)
8) Bangladesh (93% religious, 110th happiness)
9) Georgia (93% religious, 126th happiness)
10) Morocco (93% religious, 90th happiness)

Average happiness ranking: 104.9
Max: 147th
Min: 33rd

And then a measure of importance of religion by country for the ten happiest countries. I am using this wikipedia site: https://en.wikipedia...on_by_country).The percentages I am quoting are those who say that religion is important in their lives:
Top ten:
1) Denmark 19%
2) Switzerland 41%
3) Iceland NA?
4) Norway 21%
5) Finland 28%
6) Canada 42%
7) Netherlands 33%
8) New Zealand 33%
9) Australia 32%
10) Sweden 17%

Avg: 29.6%
Max: 42%
Min: 17%

and the bottom ten:
1) Burundi 98%
2) Syria 89%
3) Togo 80%
4) Afghanistan 97%
5) Benin 93%
6) Rwanda 95%
7) Guinea 97%
8) Liberia 94%
9) Tanzania 89%
10) Madagascar 93%

Avg: 92.5%
Max: 98%
Min: 80%



Obviously there are other factors that go into happiness and religiousness too, but if we just look at the data I have pulled thus far we can make some interesting observations:
1) Happiest countries are less religious
2) The happiest countries consider religion to be less important in their lives
3) The unhappiest countries are more religious
4) The unhappiest countries consider religion to be more important in their lives than the happiest countries do





I thought this was very interesting to see. It would also be interesting to add more data on top of this. Such as how free these countries are, what the death rate is, what the intentional homicide rate is, what the rate of violent crime rate is, and what the GDP and other big economic factors are. But I don't have the time at the moment to compile all of that.

[DeMotts]

There's definitely a correlation, but not necessarily causation - lack of religion probably doesn't MAKE people happier. I would theorize that the more developed and wealthier countries at the top of the happiness list have stronger social institutions, non-religious constitutions, greater protection of minorities, and readily available higher education.

The result is a more educated, more secure, healthier population that doesn't rely on religion as a fundamental social institution. Importantly, they also have a social environment that doesn't persecute individuals for questioning established religious values.

Edit: A more fair comparison may be to find countries that have as many factors in common as possible (GDP per capita, life expectancy, etc) and only have religious variables as major differences, then seeing how they compare.

[TheBeardedDude]

I haven't delved too deep into any interpretation of this, but all of the data I pulled I got off of wikipedia and I deleted any countries I didn't have complete data for (not ideal but I did this PCA quickly). That resulted in some countries that I'd like to have seen on here become omitted (Cuba, Syria, North Korea, to name a few). Note: The PCA uses a correlation matrix since the data is all of different types.
If a piece of data is a rank, remember that this means that the higher the number the worse it is (so a high GDP ranking means it has a worse GDP ranking than a country with a rank closer to 1). But for the rates, the lower the number the worse it is (suicide and violent crime rates). And the response to the religion question is a percentage (I omitted the opposite response to that question so as to reduce the "double dipping" of the data).

In general, the countries you probably wouldn't want to live in plot to the left and down. These countries have poor GDP rankings and high suicide rates. These are also the countries that tend to favor religion.

The opposite direction is occupied by countries with less religiousness and better GDP rankings (some have elevated suicide rates, like China/Hong Kong and the UK relative to some of the other countries).

I can't go through country by country at the moment and I may go back through this and add in more data (and remove the different suicide categories since they load in the same direction and to the same degree) and add back in countries with incomplete data (I should be able to do the PCA with incomplete if I can figure out how to code for it in R).

Religion being important to people isn't a reflection of a high quality life, the reciprocal appears to be more true. But how one determines causality is not clear. Maybe more religious people create worse countries to live in? Or perhaps countries that are worse to live in create more religious people?

[JP Cusick]

This is a thread about happiness and religiousness around the globe as a way of assessing what countries are better off, the most or least religious ones?

Happiest countries on Earth according to the World Happiness Report Update 2016 from the Sustainable Development Solutions Network for the UN. (http://www.cnn.com/2...nited-nations/)

I thought this was very interesting to see. It would also be interesting to add more data on top of this. Such as how free these countries are, what the death rate is, what the intentional homicide rate is, what the rate of violent crime rate is, and what the GDP and other big economic factors are. But I don't have the time at the moment to compile all of that.

My response is very unorthodox (of course) in that I see it as a sickness to seek happiness or to be in happiness, and so a happy person is almost certainly a sick person - with a few exceptions.

The pursuit of happiness is an illusion and it is vain.

The Buddha figured this out ages ago, and he was quite accurate in this that all life is made up of sadness and sorrow and pain - that is suffering is the one true reality for every person.

Yes a little happiness comes into every person's life, but it flies away as fast as it came, while the sufferings of life never leaves as the suffering (sadness and sorrow and pain) is permanent.

People kid their self and fool their self and waste away their lives seeking after a happiness that does not exist.

I would expect that most religious people would know this, but I find religious people to be just as foolish about happiness as are the non religious.

Perhaps the religious people are a tad bit more honest about their own unhappiness - but I do not know whether or not.

The bigger point about the surveys and statistics is that many people lie about happiness, and many are not self aware so that they can not distinguish happiness from misery, and there is also the delusion that if they speak the words over and over then eventually the happiness will become true - as if they expect their happiness to come by magic.

Whether a person is rich or poor or healthy or not they all suffer from birth they cry and we all struggle through life until the slow decline when we wither and die.

Any person who is honestly knowing that they are unhappy are thereby closer to reality.

[bluethread]

Statistics are funny things. Just glancing at these lists I did notice a few things.

Top ten happiest countries.
Mainly, relatively isolated first world subarctic monocultures.

Bottom ten happiest countries.
Mainly, relatively isolated third world equatorial tribal cultures.

Least religious
Mainly, first world temperate to subarctic
Hong Kong and Vietnam climate exceptions.

Most religious
Mainly, third world African/Asian equatorial/subtropical

If one were to make comparison similar to the OP:
First world subarctic monocultures are happier than third world
equatorial tribal cultures.

First world temperate to subarctic countries are less religious than
third world African/Asian equatorial/subtropical ones.

Could it be that monoculture/first world conditions, with temperate to subarctic weather make for happier places, and tribal/third world conditions with sub tropical to tropical weather cause people to be more religious? Three stabilizing characteristics make people more content and less inclined to call on a deity. Three stressful characteristics make people less content and more likely to call on a deity. Who'd a thunk it?

[DanieltheDragon]

[Replying to post 5 by bluethread]

Another point to detract from the OP is with or without religion these places could be unhappy, but religion probides them mental and emotional relief from their stressful lives.

[H.sapiens]

Could it be that monoculture/first world conditions, with temperate to subarctic weather make for happier places, and tribal/third world conditions with sub tropical to tropical weather cause people to be more religious? Three stabilizing characteristics make people more content and less inclined to call on a deity. Three stressful characteristics make people less content and more likely to call on a deity. Who'd a thunk it?

Could it be the lower parasite load? Does fewer parasites result in less religion; or does less religion make less niche space available to parasites?

[bluethread]

Could it be that monoculture/first world conditions, with temperate to subarctic weather make for happier places, and tribal/third world conditions with sub tropical to tropical weather cause people to be more religious? Three stabilizing characteristics make people more content and less inclined to call on a deity. Three stressful characteristics make people less content and more likely to call on a deity. Who'd a thunk it?

Could it be the lower parasite load? Does fewer parasites result in less religion; or does less religion make less niche space available to parasites?

Exactly, statistical analysis is a wonderful thing. As we all know, in Lake Wobegon "all the women are strong, all the men are good looking, and all the children are above average."

[H.sapiens]

Could it be that monoculture/first world conditions, with temperate to subarctic weather make for happier places, and tribal/third world conditions with sub tropical to tropical weather cause people to be more religious? Three stabilizing characteristics make people more content and less inclined to call on a deity. Three stressful characteristics make people less content and more likely to call on a deity. Who'd a thunk it?

Could it be the lower parasite load? Does fewer parasites result in less religion; or does less religion make less niche space available to parasites?

Exactly, statistical analysis is a wonderful thing. As we all know, in Lake Wobegon "all the women are strong, all the men are good looking, and all the children are above average."

Yes, but are we talking about parasites who live in your digestive tract or parasites who wear a clerical collar (or equivalent)? In one case we have a correlation without a causality and in the other ...

[H.sapiens]

Could it be that monoculture/first world conditions, with temperate to subarctic weather make for happier places, and tribal/third world conditions with sub tropical to tropical weather cause people to be more religious? Three stabilizing characteristics make people more content and less inclined to call on a deity. Three stressful characteristics make people less content and more likely to call on a deity. Who'd a thunk it?

Could it be the lower parasite load? Does fewer parasites result in less religion; or does less religion make less niche space available to parasites?

Exactly, statistical analysis is a wonderful thing. As we all know, in Lake Wobegon "all the women are strong, all the men are good looking, and all the children are above average."

Yes, but are we talking about parasites who live in your digestive tract or parasites who wear a clerical collar (or equivalent)? In one case we have a correlation without a causality and in the other ...

Or ... does happiness stem from being free of both?