It must be true!

[Willum]

So we all know science is about multiple observers verifying the same subject or phenomenon under objective conditions.

But how many of you really go out and confirm the inverse square law? Gravity's force? Not nearly as many as the number of Christians confirm the presence of God, right?

And although not objective observers, certainly it is inconceivable for bias to that universal, isn't it?

So say believers started to pray, objectively, would this provide sufficient, documented and even scientific proof?

[Neatras]

So we all know science is about multiple observers verifying the same subject or phenomenon under objective conditions.

But how many of you really go out and confirm the inverse square law? Gravity's force? Not nearly as many as the number of Christians confirm the presence of God, right?

And although not objective observers, certainly it is inconceivable for bias to that universal, isn't it?

So say believers started to pray, objectively, would this provide sufficient, documented and even scientific proof?

Modern science classes and lectures in universities tend to address myriad subjects, including optics, gravitational force, and electromagnetic effects. We're allowed to interact with and study physical phenomena in the classroom, while those intrigued go on to study the more nuanced fields in the future.

I finished my physics/chemistry classes last year.

[H.sapiens]

So we all know science is about multiple observers verifying the same subject or phenomenon under objective conditions.

But how many of you really go out and confirm the inverse square law?

That is just arithmetic, it does not require observational proof.

Gravity's force?

Confirmed with every ball game you play ... basketball, football, baseball,
etc.

Not nearly as many as the number of Christians confirm the presence of God, right?

Rather more, especially if we throw in golf and soccer.

And although not objective observers, certainly it is inconceivable for bias to that universal, isn't it?

No. It is quite reasonable, check out what is known about the "god gene" and it's potential contribution to human evolution and survival.

So say believers started to pray, objectively, would this provide sufficient, documented and even scientific proof?

No, I'd say that when believers pray for the regrowth of amputated limbs and start seeing results that you'd have an interesting beginning.

[Willum]

[Replying to post 3 by H.sapiens]

Well yes, at some level, every baseball game,

That is just arithmetic, it does not require observational proof.

However, how do you know the force? or if it is another phenomenon? and the inverse square law is arithmatic, WITH AN assumption. The assumption being conservation, two assumptions really, conservation, and that forces work with that geometry.

But that isn't the point really. The point is we - very few of us - have assessed these scientific beliefs as regularly as a Christian does while praying.

No. It is quite reasonable, check out what is known about the "god gene" and it's potential contribution to human evolution and survival.

Well, that is an explanation, but there are lots of ways we could have survived without a god predisposition. So it is not entirely satisfying or dismissive.

No, I'd say that when believers pray for the regrowth of amputated limbs and start seeing results that you'd have an interesting beginning.

Now this is a great observation:
On one hand, we have all these people feeling God's presence, and having certain results of prayer. If we accept it as proof, what does it say?
One the other, we don't see any of his miraculous powers (claimed by people who pray).

This strikes me as telling us something about any kind of god that may exist.
Perhaps it exists, but its only powers are its press agents?

[benchwarmer]

But that isn't the point really. The point is we - very few of us - have assessed these scientific beliefs as regularly as a Christian does while praying.

It's quite possible I'm missing the point entirely, so take that into consideration.

Regarding gravity. I drop something and it falls. I drop something else and it falls too. Before long I get a stern look and maybe asked why I'm dropping everything in sight on the floor. This knowledge sticks with me as I grow up and nothing ever seems to happen that refutes this phenomenon.

Regarding prayer. I pray for something. Silence. I pray for something else. Silence. I try again. This time is seems maybe what I ask for happens. Huh. I pray for something else. Silence. Again. Silence. Again? More Silence. What the ...

Eventually, if you manage to step back and disregard any tales you've been told, you realize that prayers are observably answered about as often as random chance would cause things to happen anyway.

All that to say, everyday basic science reproves itself to me when I interact with the world around me. Religion fails to prove anything to me other than perhaps a great way to control people and take their money.

[Willum]

[Replying to post 5 by benchwarmer]

Can you verify Gravity is 9.8m/s2 because of mass, or another effect, maybe size? But like I said, you don't actually measure physical effect on a daily bases, unlike prayer, which those faithful claim is measurable and repeatable...

Regarding prayer. I pray for something. Silence. I pray for something else. Silence. I try again. This time is seems maybe what I ask for happens. Huh. I pray for something else. Silence. Again. Silence. Again? More Silence. What the ...

But many many DO hear something. In a repeatable sort of way?

[benchwarmer]

[Replying to post 5 by benchwarmer]

Can you verify Gravity is 9.8m/s2 because of mass, or another effect, maybe size?

Yes, I can do that and I've probably done it at least once in one of my many science classes years ago.

But like I said, you don't actually measure physical effect on a daily bases, unlike prayer, which those faithful claim is measurable and repeatable...

Well, I sort of do measure it on a daily basis. If the force of gravity changed on my body I would likely feel it and start walking funny (assuming a non negligent change - the extra Doritos I just ate won't make a perceptible difference in my mass). So while I don't recalculate the acceleration or forces involved, I certainly seem to use gravity the same every day and don't notice a difference. I walk the same, objects I drop seem to fall the same, I don't have a harder/easier time climbing the stairs unless I'm physically tired or something, etc. If I woke up and we all of a sudden has the Moon's gravity or Jupiter's gravity to deal with, well I think I would notice

Regarding prayer. I pray for something. Silence. I pray for something else. Silence. I try again. This time is seems maybe what I ask for happens. Huh. I pray for something else. Silence. Again. Silence. Again? More Silence. What the ...

But many many DO hear something. In a repeatable sort of way?

Well, some certainly claim such things. For them I guess they also get the same feedback every time they pray.

I guess my point is I don't see a difference. My feedback on gravity seems unchanging like the feedback some people who pray claim is unchanging.

Maybe I'm still missing the point and we are talking past each other.

[checkers]

[Replying to post 1 by Willum]

Who says they were observing things under "objective" conditions? Don't you understand they were observing things with subjective senses that are totally different from one person to the next?

[Willum]

[Replying to benchwarmer]

The idea is that far more people constantly confirm prayer and so on, unlike most other physical effects.

You don't measure gravity, certainly not on Jupiter to know repeatably that it is what we believe, whereas folks whom pray have constant consistency... very like we desire from scientific evidence.

Does this make it more true than science, or at least some sciences?

[checkers]

[Replying to post 9 by Willum]

Science was way more important to God to reveal himself and his voice than religion ever did for him. All religion did was build things for him until all the computers, AI and voice technology was in place so that God could learn who He is.