Psychedelics and God?

[jgh7]

Many people claim to go on spiritual journeys when they do psychedelics. Certain psychedelics such as DMT are considered to be extremely spiritual by many. Shamans in South America use DMT derived from the iowaska plant to go on their journeys. Other psychedilics such as Ketamine are actually used by doctors to treat depression and other illnesses.


Questions:
Do you think people can come in to contact with God or spirits by doing psychedelics? Or do they come in to contact with demons? Or is it simply hallucinations of the mind and nothing more? Do you consider psychedelics bad or immoral (both for religious and/or non-religious reasons)? Would you take the spiritual experience of a person who did psychedelics any less or more seriously than the spiritual experience of a religious person?

(I put this in the science section in case anyone wanted to go deep into chemical reactions to explain why psychedelics do what they do)

[agnosticatheist]

People seeking spiritual experience are taking it with reverence

Doesn't matter. They are taking contact with the spiritual realm into their own hands rather than trusting God to bring the contact to them, on his time table. So, they are in error before God in two ways. One, they are NOT trusting God, and 2, they are not letting God work on his time table.

[Monta]

People seeking spiritual experience are taking it with reverence

Doesn't matter. They are taking contact with the spiritual realm into their own hands rather than trusting God to bring the contact to them, on his time table. So, they are in error before God in two ways. One, they are NOT trusting God, and 2, they are not letting God work on his time table.

We can also say we do not trust God and have to look after our diet or go to the doctor. Reverence is prayer, you have a spiritual need for which you take it.
People's lives are changed, healings, enlightenment. You are a better person.

Taking it for entertainment is dangerous as you may not be able to handle the spiritual input.

[agnosticatheist]

People seeking spiritual experience are taking it with reverence

Doesn't matter. They are taking contact with the spiritual realm into their own hands rather than trusting God to bring the contact to them, on his time table. So, they are in error before God in two ways. One, they are NOT trusting God, and 2, they are not letting God work on his time table.

We can also say we do not trust God and have to look after our diet or go to the doctor.

God is ok with us looking after our diet and going to the doctor. The Bible says our body is the temple of the holy spirit and to take care of it.

Reverence is prayer, you have a spiritual need for which you take it.
People's lives are changed, healings, enlightenment. You are a better person.

Prayer is prayer, "reverence" through psychedelics is not prayer. You trust God for your spiritual needs.

When you take psychedelics, smoke weed, etc, you are opening yourself up to the spiritual realm and to negative spiritual entities. And again, you are taking contact with the spiritual realm into your own hands rather than trusting God to bring that contact to you on his timetable.

[bluethread]

People seeking spiritual experience are taking it with reverence

Doesn't matter. They are taking contact with the spiritual realm into their own hands rather than trusting God to bring the contact to them, on his time table. So, they are in error before God in two ways. One, they are NOT trusting God, and 2, they are not letting God work on his time table.

We can also say we do not trust God and have to look after our diet or go to the doctor. Reverence is prayer, you have a spiritual need for which you take it.
People's lives are changed, healings, enlightenment. You are a better person.

Taking it for entertainment is dangerous as you may not be able to handle the spiritual input.

AA seems to be quite definitive about knowing what "good" and "evil" are and speaks quite definitively regarding what it means to trust "God" and how "God" works. I contend that to argue the merits of your practices with one who appears to be reluctant to clearly communicate what constitutes "good'' and "evil" and which deity one is talking about is like daffy duck arguing with a cartoonist. The scenery can be drawn on the fly and changed for little reason, or no reason at all. Therefore, I would suggest that, whenever a definitive statement is made, it be determined if such a statement is dogma or a derived conclusion. If the latter, I would suggest that one inquire as to the premise from which the conclusion is derived, so that one can then ask if that is dogma or just another derived conclusion. In this way one can, by means of induction, derive the nature of "good" and "evil" that AA proclaims to clearly know and the deity to which AA is referring. Then within that framework, one can argue the merits of one's practices.

[Hector Barbosa]

People seeking spiritual experience are taking it with reverence

Doesn't matter. They are taking contact with the spiritual realm into their own hands rather than trusting God to bring the contact to them, on his time table. So, they are in error before God in two ways. One, they are NOT trusting God, and 2, they are not letting God work on his time table.

We can also say we do not trust God and have to look after our diet or go to the doctor.

God is ok with us looking after our diet and going to the doctor. The Bible says our body is the temple of the holy spirit and to take care of it.

Reverence is prayer, you have a spiritual need for which you take it.
People's lives are changed, healings, enlightenment. You are a better person.

Prayer is prayer, "reverence" through psychedelics is not prayer. You trust God for your spiritual needs.

When you take psychedelics, smoke weed, etc, you are opening yourself up to the spiritual realm and to negative spiritual entities. And again, you are taking contact with the spiritual realm into your own hands rather than trusting God to bring that contact to you on his timetable.

How do you know what God is ok with in regard to seeking the spiritual realm on your own, going to the doctor or smoking weed?

Is this something you get out of reading the Bible or did God tell you?

And why do you call yourself an AgnosticAtheist if you believe in God?

[Monta]

[Replying to post 13 by agnosticatheist]

"When you take psychedelics, smoke weed, etc, you are opening yourself up to the spiritual realm and to negative spiritual entities. And again, you are taking contact with the spiritual realm into your own hands rather than trusting God to bring that contact to you on his timetable."

No. We are not talking psychedelics or smoking weed.
we are talking about 'ayawaska' as some call it a 'spiritual molecule'.

It is specially prepared and at first makes you 'sick as a dog' as the saying goes; I suppose it is to clean you out. A qualified person is in attendance.
It is practiced in Equador and other SA countries.

I think this is more for self-exploration than contact with spiritual world

[agnosticatheist]

[Replying to post 13 by agnosticatheist]

"When you take psychedelics, smoke weed, etc, you are opening yourself up to the spiritual realm and to negative spiritual entities. And again, you are taking contact with the spiritual realm into your own hands rather than trusting God to bring that contact to you on his timetable."

No. We are not talking psychedelics or smoking weed.
we are talking about 'ayawaska' as some call it a 'spiritual molecule'.

It is specially prepared and at first makes you 'sick as a dog' as the saying goes; I suppose it is to clean you out. A qualified person is in attendance.
It is practiced in Equador and other SA countries.

I think this is more for self-exploration than contact with spiritual world

This thread was about psychedelics and not just ayahuasca.

I'm familiar with ayahuasca. It is a psychedelic...it can help with self-exploration, but people have also claimed to have had spiritual experiences, and to have came into contact with spiritual entities, while using it. Look up the artwork of Pablo Amaringo...

[Monta]

[Replying to post 17 by agnosticatheist]

"I'm familiar with ayahuasca. It is a psychedelic...it can help with self-exploration, but people have also claimed to have had spiritual experiences, and to have came into contact with spiritual entities, while using it. Look up the artwork of Pablo Amaringo..."

Thanks for mentioning Pablo Amaringo; amazing scenes, colors...
would be priceless if he could interpret its meaning.
Or does he.

[Plumbus Grumbo]

Many people claim to go on spiritual journeys when they do psychedelics. Certain psychedelics such as DMT are considered to be extremely spiritual by many. Shamans in South America use DMT derived from the iowaska plant to go on their journeys. Other psychedilics such as Ketamine are actually used by doctors to treat depression and other illnesses.


Questions:
Do you think people can come in to contact with God or spirits by doing psychedelics? Or do they come in to contact with demons? Or is it simply hallucinations of the mind and nothing more? Do you consider psychedelics bad or immoral (both for religious and/or non-religious reasons)? Would you take the spiritual experience of a person who did psychedelics any less or more seriously than the spiritual experience of a religious person?

(I put this in the science section in case anyone wanted to go deep into chemical reactions to explain why psychedelics do what they do)

Psychedelics provide information about the self and the gods. Reality is not part of the equation. (Sciencly, psychedelics work by binding certain agonists to relevant receptors in the brain).

[Monta]

[Replying to Plumbus Grumbo]


"Psychedelics provide information about the self and the gods. Reality is not part of the equation. (Sciencly, psychedelics work by binding certain agonists to relevant receptors in the brain)."

I do not quite grasp that 'reality is not part of the equation'.
If it 'provides infromation about 'the self and the gods' doesn't that fall into the real?