Messiah and God Complex vs the People

[sawthelight]

I have read the People vs Muhammad and met some people who have this 'Messiah and God complex'. One person acted out in violence while the other was more peaceful in their approach for god.

It seems that over 10% of the population of the world suffer from this disorder (according to J.K Sheindlin "The People vs Muhammad) and have symptoms such as "narcissism", "grandiose illusions", and "schizophrenia".

I can see people claiming they are Jesus to be delusional as that is impossible according to Christianity for another Jesus to be alive unless it is the actual end of times (which I don't see nukes going off yet).

But what about those who just claim to be god's messenger? They don't claim to be a messiah but just another one of god's people. Are they truly delusional? Why does it seem even the Christian community would dismiss someone claiming to be a messenger of god when they are both following the same religion? Perhaps it's okay to believe in the same law of god but not carry out god's command lest one would be called a messenger of god?

What makes then the rest of religious society considered to be "sane" if both sane people and god complex people are following the same religion and it's tenets?

[gordsd]

[Replying to intheabyss]

What makes then the rest of religious society considered to be "sane" if both sane people and god complex people are following the same religion and it's tenets?

I think this is a good question to think about. It seems to me that we have those who go to church and listen to the liturgy and the minister (Priest, Pastor, Rabbi, Sage, or whatever) but not take it too seriously: after all, they do what is required: say their prayers, give to the church and believe the articles of faith and/or that Jesus is the one. It seems to me that these are considered the sane ones. Those that do not take their religion too seriously. But, then we have those who take it too seriously. The one's who think the Bible is the living word of God. They take those places in the Bible where Jesus demands absolute obedience and commitment serious. These are the ones considered crazy. They preach on the street corners They think God has spoken to them. They are the ones who come up to you on the street or at a party in front of everyone and ask you if you know Jesus.

IMHO, those who accept the Bible as “the word� of God and study it as such are prone to fall into the messiah or God complex. Once one accepts the Bible or any book as the ultimate authority that person becomes bound to it. To reject it would mean being rejected by God. But some of us, who have studied the Bible objectively, have realized that there are contradictions in it and some down right mean and wrong things. So. . .rather than judging the Bible according to what some of us consider humane honest evaluation, some just follow and believe everything which is printed in it. They, IMHO, go away from sanity. They live in a different reality. They force everything they see in the real world into this Biblical fantastic—but false—world view.

--the following is from Wikipedia

messiah complex: the symptoms of the disorder closely resemble those found in individuals suffering from grandiose delusions or delusions of grandeur.

A person with a god complex may refuse to admit the possibility of their error or failure, even in the face of irrefutable evidence, intractable problems or difficult or impossible tasks. The person is also highly dogmatic in their views, meaning the person speaks of their personal opinions as though they are unquestionably correct.[1] Someone with a god complex may exhibit no regard for the conventions and demands of society, and may request special consideration or privileges.[1]

[sawthelight]

It seems to me that we have those who go to church and listen to the liturgy and the minister (Priest, Pastor, Rabbi, Sage, or whatever) but not take it too seriously: after all, they do what is required: say their prayers, give to the church and believe the articles of faith and/or that Jesus is the one. It seems to me that these are considered the sane ones. Those that do not take their religion too seriously. But, then we have those who take it too seriously. The one's who think the Bible is the living word of God. They take those places in the Bible where Jesus demands absolute obedience and commitment serious. These are the ones considered crazy. They preach on the street corners They think God has spoken to them. They are the ones who come up to you on the street or at a party in front of everyone and ask you if you know Jesus.

My thoughts exactly! But my take on it is it makes Christianity look very passive as a religion. Like you say, gordsd, the ones who are more active are considered crazy. It seems like the whole religion is crazy. What is the point of following it then lest you be called crazy and delusional?

Compared to Islam, it seems that more of their active followers are considered the exact opposite - as actually sane - for following the tenets of Islam. However, there seems to be some protest within the religion but most of the Muslims seem to turn a blind eye. The passive ones may just be called unbelievers. There seems to be more cases of martyrdom for Islam than Christianity these days (suicide bombers). Wonder why that has changed.

The messiah complex is more benign and acting as the 'chosen one' who is calling back people to the right path or to promise to enter in an age of peace and prosperity (ie. Jesus, Barrack Obama, Muhammad). These people had faith from others that what they were doing would lead their people to the age of peace but we have seen for some time now, none of that has occurred. Or other messiah complexes can be of people who are just active Christian followers who, like you said, had god speak to them to carry out god's laws.

The god complex is like Hitler, Kim Il Song, Joseph Stalin, and Mao Zedong). The Crusades could fit in here except they did not openly state they themselves were god. I think the line between messiah and god complex is very blurry.

So why would someone follow a religion that does not really want you to follow it? That makes no sense.

And I don't think people trying to follow their religion try to turn out like Hitler or Joseph Stalin but if they really did what god commanded, they would have no choice but to make some tough decisions like Hitler and Stalin. I mean, genocide did occur in the bible with the Caananites (as well as wiping out tonnes of people in the bible with the Flood and purging of sinning Israelis and Egyptians) so who's to say?

[gordsd]

[Replying to post 3 by intheabyss]

And I don't think people trying to follow their religion try to turn out like Hitler or Joseph Stalin but if they really did what god commanded, they would have no choice but to make some tough decisions like Hitler and Stalin. I mean, genocide did occur in the bible with the Caananites (as well as wiping out tonnes of people in the bible with the Flood and purging of sinning Israelis and Egyptians) so who's to say?

It is closer to home than many people think. The founding of the early colonies (US)was considered by many religious people as a new Israel, God's new promised land, a light shining on a hill for the world. Many still believe that the United States is a special chosen nation by God—the exceptionality of the US is a given in political circles. In light of that, think about how people still refuse to see the genocide of somewhere around fifteen million native americans as a genocide which is on a scale of any committed by Stalin or Hitler. Neither do people compare the millions of enslaved Africans forced to leave their homeland for a life of slavery as something a Hitler or Stalin would do. Now, let's get closer to today. We are still killing innocent people in the Middle East. The unjust wars in Afghanistan and Iraq were never mentioned in the political debates. Why? Could it be that white Christians just think that they are better than darker Muslims in the Middle East? Or is it that we just want the cheap oil and that we want a clear way for a pipeline from the Caspian Sea area? You want to talk about crazy Christians. They are closer than you think and in ways you do not think about! Crazy Christians coming up to you and asking you if you know Jesus is just the tip of the iceberg. Greed for Jesus is crazy institutionalized.

[sawthelight]

It is closer to home than many people think. The founding of the early colonies (US)was considered by many religious people as a new Israel, God's new promised land, a light shining on a hill for the world. Many still believe that the United States is a special chosen nation by God—the exceptionality of the US is a given in political circles. In light of that, think about how people still refuse to see the genocide of somewhere around fifteen million native americans as a genocide which is on a scale of any committed by Stalin or Hitler.

Yea, it's all so screwed up you can't really do much about it. I mean we sit here and talk and educate each other one by one but in the grand scheme of things its the politics that rule the world.

What does it even mean to know these things? Just to stay away from magnet that's gonna pull you in anyways?

I've met a person who did go to prison for doing his god's will. Went to a mental hospital and then to prison. These people seem to be called the crazy ones. Sure he tried to take a stand on what he thought was righteous but got sent away.

Maybe we are just on these websites not to necessarily take action but to just educate ourselves. Even governments seem to imply they did commit genocide but still they rule the nations without being resigned. Maybe it's just better to know than to take action.

[sawthelight]

xcvgc

[sawthelight]

It is closer to home than many people think. The founding of the early colonies (US)was considered by many religious people as a new Israel, God's new promised land, a light shining on a hill for the world. Many still believe that the United States is a special chosen nation by God—the exceptionality of the US is a given in political circles. In light of that, think about how people still refuse to see the genocide of somewhere around fifteen million native americans as a genocide which is on a scale of any committed by Stalin or Hitler.

Yea, it's all so screwed up you can't really do much about it. I mean we sit here and talk and educate each other one by one but in the grand scheme of things its the politics that rule the world.

What does it even mean to know these things? Just to stay away from magnet that's gonna pull you in anyways?

I've met a person who did go to prison for doing his god's will. These people seem to be called the crazy ones. Sure he tried to take a stand on what he thought was righteous but got sent away.

Maybe to take a stand against all the hypocrisy is pointless as is it to do nothing about it. All we get to take away from this is its all messed.

[gordsd]

[Replying to post 5 by intheabyss]

its the politics that rule the world.

I would say it's the corporate world's greed which runs/ruins the world.

What does it even mean to know these things?

Well, I think it is good to question everything we are told. And I don't think anyone can do anything all alone--the "hero" complex? I believe the only way is to unite large masses of people who simply say no to the madness. However the mass media is bought and paid for by the corporate world. Some people are waking up, thanks to non-profit media like Link TV and Free Speech TV: on such, there are shows like "Democracy Now," "Laura Flanders Show," "Days of Revolt, Chris Hedges show," etc. It's about what some political philosophers called bringing the people to consciousness.

But it is not easy. Patriotism is like religion; people have a hard time questioning that which they have believed in so strongly.

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/the ... m_20160403
http://www.historyisaweapon.com/defcon1 ... otism.html

[sawthelight]

Well, I think it is good to question everything we are told. And I don't think anyone can do anything all alone--the "hero" complex? I believe the only way is to unite large masses of people who simply say no to the madness. However the mass media is bought and paid for by the corporate world. Some people are waking up, thanks to non-profit media like Link TV and Free Speech TV: on such, there are shows like "Democracy Now," "Laura Flanders Show," "Days of Revolt, Chris Hedges show," etc. It's about what some political philosophers called bringing the people to consciousness.

But it is not easy. Patriotism is like religion; people have a hard time questioning that which they have believed in so strongly.

That is on a positive note. Thanks for that. I can say however to wake up from all the deception is a liberating feeling. Even to challenge to Bible is a wake up call.

So many people quote the bible, warning of the end times or of sinners mocking god, yet they seem to be mistaken on the actual circumstance. They quote scripture like it can be used anytime for any situation the user needs it for but then all of a sudden becomes void when it comes down to OT passages. Some NT passages (Mark 16:18) seems to be somehow void as well when it comes to being able to drink poison and survive in the name of god.

Though those verses are neglected and not found as truthful now, other verses of the same book suddenly are when warning about mockers of god such as music icons and illuminati. Yet these people are not called crazy from their community for using scripture to shun hollywood. They are usually embraced by other christians. Is it simply because it is more acceptable to be peaceful than violent?

And I like those links. Its good to see others who oppose this mainstream one-size fits all nonsense.

[gordsd]

[Replying to post 7 by intheabyss]

Though those verses are neglected and not found as truthful now, other verses of the same book suddenly are when warning about mockers of god such as music icons and illuminati. Yet these people are not called crazy from their community for using scripture to shun hollywood. They are usually embraced by other christians. Is it simply because it is more acceptable to be peaceful than violent?

Yeah, people believe what they want to believe, and many will simply mirror that which is acceptable to their community—many times without question. Many people have a strong desire to belong and to be accepted by their community. Many will say that they believe in this or that, (like the Bible as “the� word of God) but the belief is mostly lip-service—as you are pointing out when some parts of the Bible are taken much more seriously than others. Some call it cherry picking. Like the passage you mention, Mark 16:18. Why doesn't the churches test their leaders by making them drink snake poison? (LOL!) The answer is not primarily because it would be cruel (which it would be considered crazy because it would be violent); the answer is because they would have to admit that that part of the text was added and is not true, so then other parts of the Bible would then be open to corruption as well, so the debate is shunned because they cannot allow faith in the Bible to be suspect or challenged. In many study Bibles, many passages are noted as added later, like the Mark 16:18 passage, but the common Christian does not see the implications of accepting those foot notes seriously.

I think there are degrees of the 'Messiah and God complex.' I mean, doesn't everyone want to be a hero is some way? Yet not many want to be considered crazy, so to say one is a Messiah is pushing the envelope, but to say one is a messenger is culturally acceptable: like being called to be a minister or a missionary, etc. It is interesting that this is never questioned by mainstream thinking—as you put it. So it is OK to believe that which is acceptable.

So, who are the crazy ones? As we discussed above, is it those who take things too seriously like the Bible—which I think we agree is full of contradictions and other harmful stuff? Or is it those who believe but just believe and practice that which is acceptable to a larger community, and yet never see or want to see the contradictions they live? Or are the crazy ones people like me who think they see through the subtle lies of religion and patriotism and as a result are called God haters and traitors?