JW organization.

[Elijah John]

Jehovah's Witnesses are not allowed to:

-vote
-celebrate birthdays
-celebrate Christmas or Easter
-donate or receive blood transfusions.

And if any JW openly persists in doing these things[edit to add publicly], they will be shunned or disfellowshipped, [edit to add or otherwise admonished or disciplined.]

For debate,

1) what do any of these check-list prohibitions have to do with Christianity?

2) And are any of these prohibitions compatible with the idea of Christian freedom?

3) Are these prohibitions arbitrary or legalistic?

4) And could Jehvoah's Witness as an organization flourish without these particular prohibitions and still honor God?

Please address any or all of the above.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 247 by onewithhim]


[center]
Jesus was perhaps a bit naive about the politics[/center]

Jesus was treated like less than a man, so I would think that "a worm" would describe how he felt and how some others viewed him.

A lot of self-styled saviors have paranoid delusions of persecution. Jesus seems to fit right in with the rest of them. If he was stirring up trouble, he should NOT have been surprised at being being treated poorly by the people in authority who he was openly criticizing.

Protesting the law makers was viewed poorly back in the day.
It's not even viewed well in our day, but maybe people don't get crucified for it as much.

Good morning, BC. I was thinking last night that I'm glad you spend the time you do on these sites. Does your wife agree with you on your viewpoints?

I feel that Jesus was not paranoid nor delusional. He expected to be treated poorly because the OT prophesied that he would be. Never mind that he knew everything about Jehovah's purposes even before he came to the earth.

It's good that you caught the fact that he was indeed criticizing the religious authorities; believe it or not, most people don't realize that, & they continue to think that the Jews maintained their position as God's special people. Jesus actually said otherwise. (Matthew 21:43; Matthew 23:37,38) But he said a lot of things that most people ignore.

I think it is important to bring out that Jesus wasn't criticizing the worldly authorities at that time. He criticized the religious authorities.....men who were supposed to be guiding the people in their relationship with Jehovah (who inspired the Law of Moses), but who were miserably failing at their job. (Chapter 23 of Matthew, for instance.) He said the things that a Messiah would be expected to say, wouldn't you agree?


.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 250 by onewithhim]


[center]

A Jesus on every street corner.
Don't make eye contact.[/center]

Does your wife agree with you on your viewpoints?

Nope, she left.
Wanna date?

I feel that Jesus was not paranoid nor delusional.

That feeling is to be expected of a believer.
I would not imagine that you would feel otherwise.

We both of us base our beliefs on the Bible.. it's just that we have arrived at wildly different conclusions about it, haven't we?

He expected to be treated poorly because the OT prophesied that he would be. Never mind that he knew everything about Jehovah's purposes even before he came to the earth.

Oh right.. his paranoid delusion was based on ancient Jewish beliefs. He was supposed to be "the Messiah". Woo... Unfortunately, there are many people who suffer from paranoid delusions like that.. we call them suffering from "messiah complex" and so on.. that's quite common, and in too many cases, quite tragic too. The Bible story has it that Jesus's followers didn't fare too well, either.

Many early Christian leaders and followers were tortured and rubbed out.
Religion back in the day was VERY serious business.

Still is today.
Big honking serious business.

And people STILL die over it.

It's good that you caught the fact that he was indeed criticizing the religious authorities; believe it or not, most people don't realize that, & they continue to think that the Jews maintained their position as God's special people. Jesus actually said otherwise. (Matthew 21:43; Matthew 23:37,38) But he said a lot of things that most people ignore.

Yeah, a lot of people ignore paranoid delusional people who claim to be God's special people. There's a lot of that going around. Always has, probably.

I know a street corner... wow.. lots and lots of God's special little helpers getting themselves REALLY ignored. Street wise people learn very quickly to not make with the eye contact.

Others are a little more naive and git CAUGHT.

I think it is important to bring out that Jesus wasn't criticizing the worldly authorities at that time.

Look, an authority is an authority, legit or not.
I don't BELIEVE in any religion.. but I believe in POWER.

The Jewish gang were running the religion con.
Jesus wanted to muscle in on the very holy territory.

There was money and power at stake here...
So, they had themselves a turf war.

Was a long bloody war, Hitler almost got rid of all the Jews, but in any case, the Christians won.

Hooray for the Christians.
They got er done.

He said the things that a Messiah would be expected to say, wouldn't you agree?

So did David Koresh and Charly Manson. what's your point?

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 250 by onewithhim]


[center]

A Jesus on every street corner.
Don't make eye contact.[/center]

Does your wife agree with you on your viewpoints?

Nope, she left.
Wanna date?

I feel that Jesus was not paranoid nor delusional.

That feeling is to be expected of a believer.
I would not imagine that you would feel otherwise.

We both of us base our beliefs on the Bible.. it's just that we have arrived at wildly different conclusions about it, haven't we?

He expected to be treated poorly because the OT prophesied that he would be. Never mind that he knew everything about Jehovah's purposes even before he came to the earth.

Oh right.. his paranoid delusion was based on ancient Jewish beliefs. He was supposed to be "the Messiah". Woo... Unfortunately, there are many people who suffer from paranoid delusions like that.. we call them suffering from "messiah complex" and so on.. that's quite common, and in too many cases, quite tragic too. The Bible story has it that Jesus's followers didn't fare too well, either.

Many early Christian leaders and followers were tortured and rubbed out.
Religion back in the day was VERY serious business.

Still is today.
Big honking serious business.

And people STILL die over it.

It's good that you caught the fact that he was indeed criticizing the religious authorities; believe it or not, most people don't realize that, & they continue to think that the Jews maintained their position as God's special people. Jesus actually said otherwise. (Matthew 21:43; Matthew 23:37,38) But he said a lot of things that most people ignore.

Yeah, a lot of people ignore paranoid delusional people who claim to be God's special people. There's a lot of that going around. Always has, probably.

I know a street corner... wow.. lots and lots of God's special little helpers getting themselves REALLY ignored. Street wise people learn very quickly to not make with the eye contact.

Others are a little more naive and git CAUGHT.

I think it is important to bring out that Jesus wasn't criticizing the worldly authorities at that time.

Look, an authority is an authority, legit or not.
I don't BELIEVE in any religion.. but I believe in POWER.

The Jewish gang were running the religion con.
Jesus wanted to muscle in on the very holy territory.

There was money and power at stake here...
So, they had themselves a turf war.

Was a long bloody war, Hitler almost got rid of all the Jews, but in any case, the Christians won.

Hooray for the Christians.
They got er done.

He said the things that a Messiah would be expected to say, wouldn't you agree?

So did David Koresh and Charly Manson. what's your point?

Well, I just want to say that Christ's followers have always been a suffering lot, but today there are over 8 million people who have stuck it out. If there IS a "true religion," wouldn't that religion be quite different from the rest?

Most religion today IS "big business." I believe it's all about money and power. With the exception of one religion....mine, of course.

LOL....so you've seen JWs on the street? Very good. They would love to be "caught" and have a conversation with you. (Just try to be nice.)

David Koresh and Manson: They said a lot of things that the Messiah would NOT say, so they were pretty obviously not the Messiah. Both had sex with just about everybody (Koresh with children); they both fomented hatred toward other people; both were abusive to others, mentally and physically. Jesus was none of those things.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 252 by onewithhim]



[center]
A Jesus on every street corner.
One for every taste.[/center]

If there IS a "true religion," wouldn't that religion be quite different from the rest?

Unfortunately, "different" does not mean "true".

Most religion today IS "big business." I believe it's all about money and power. With the exception of one religion....mine, of course.

Yeah, everyone prefers his own brand.

LOL....so you've seen JWs on the street? Very good. They would love to be "caught" and have a conversation with you. (Just try to be nice.)

Sometimes, I really don't have the time or the inclination to have a lengthy religious debate.

David Koresh and Manson: They said a lot of things that the Messiah would NOT say, so they were pretty obviously not the Messiah.

You might have to convince their followers about that one. It might not have been oh so obvious to THEM. You like your messiah, they like theirs.

Both had sex with just about everybody (Koresh with children); they both fomented hatred toward other people; both were abusive to others, mentally and physically. Jesus was none of those things.

So what?

Different messiahs are different.
You prefer your own brand.

[Benoni]

[Replying to Elijah John]

My walk in Christ is a walk in freedom to seek truth with no system of man controlling what I see and believe. JW religion can be summed up in one word. "BONDAGE". I love it when JW come to my door for within 10 minutes they are running down the street because when spiritual truth is shown to them their old wine skins bust.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 254 by Benoni]


[center]

Of human bondage[/center]

My walk in Christ is a walk in freedom to seek truth with no system of man controlling what I see and believe. JW religion can be summed up in one word. "BONDAGE".

____________

Question:

• 
  
  Isn't accepting any religion mental "bondage"?
  
  

____________

[Benoni]

[Replying to Blastcat]

Yes. But God uses religion. Jesus got mad at the Pharisee and Sadducees of his day in other word the religious. Today we have Baptise-sees, JW-sees, All religion-sees. A walk should be spiritual in god not religious.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 256 by Benoni]


[center]
This cat don't understand how you are using the word "religion".[/center]

Yes. But God uses religion. Jesus got mad at the Pharisee and Sadducees of his day in other word the religious. Today we have Baptise-sees, JW-sees, All religion-sees. A walk should be spiritual in god not religious.

How are you using the word "religious"?

It seems to me that we had agreed that all Christians, ( including yourself ) are "religious.

It's all very well to prefer the term "spiritual"... but a yoke is a yoke is a yoke.
I'd love to know precisely what you mean by "religion", and why you don't want to use that word for your particular belief system.

I'm being a bit of a "word guy" these days, you see,
Religious English vs Secular English is what I'm tripping out on these days.
____________

Questions 3:

• 
  
  Are you religious or not?
  What does religious mean?
  What does spiritual mean?
  
  

____________

[Benoni]

[Replying to Blastcat]

Again you have no idea what spiritual is so who are you to judge something YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT???????

You just like to attack because you have no life.


1 Corinthians 2:
14But the natural, nonspiritual man does not accept or welcome or admit into his heart the gifts and teachings and revelations of the Spirit of God, for they are folly (meaningless nonsense) to him; and he is incapable of knowing them [of progressively recognizing, understanding, and becoming better acquainted with them] because they are spiritually discerned and estimated and appreciated.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 258 by Benoni]



[center]
Having to define our terms is a bit tedious.. I agree.. [/center]

Again you have no idea what spiritual is so who are you to judge something YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT???????

I'm not judging, I'm asking what you mean by those religious terms.
I'm interested in the differences between Secular English vs Religious English.

I'm asking you to translate if you possibly can.

Another way of putting that is "define your terms" so I can understand what you seem to understand.