Ark spoil?

[DanieltheDragon]

How did Noah keep the food from spoiling? Assuming the animals had to eat they would need copious amounts of vegetables, fruits, and meats. No freezing, refeogeration, and a high moisture content in the air would indicate the food stores would not last a year before spoiling occurred.

[Peds nurse]

[Replying to post 3 by rikuoamero]

Hey Riku!! How ya doing?

Actually, I think you are on to something! I know that perhaps you are using a little sarcasm, but nonetheless, in my book, it is a valid point. We have God, who used His voice to create the universe, a little refrigeration would not be too difficult...maybe they even had ice cream

[benchwarmer]

Where did the animal pee go?
Did it collect on the bottom?

If you would have studied the plans I have made, you could know that on page 4/4, it is shown where the waste would go. But I understand that the drawings may not be as clear as they should be, so here is clarification. In the section drawing there is marked “sewers�. Those mean, the floors are opened near the long sides so that the waste drops to the first floors “sewer� groove that is opened to ocean. Ocean water can be released to flush that groove. So the answer to your question is, the pee went to the ocean.

So all the animals are going to squat over the appropriate sewer hole before relieving themselves? Have you ever been on a farm or at a zoo and watched the animals? The tend to pee/poo wherever they happen to be standing. Woe to anyone on the first floor. It will be raining water outside the ark and pee inside (except for the lucky dwellers of the top floor of course).

The 8 people on this ark are going to be spending a whole lot of time pushing waste into the sewer holes and washing all the pee/poo off the floors.

If the inside is constructed as I have shown in the drawings, the interior walls can be airy and the ark well ventilated. No good reason to assume the moisture would cause problems.

Of course not. The ark is only floating on the open ocean, in constant contact with water, and filled with animals that are constantly sweating and relieving themselves. No moisture issues at all.

[rikuoamero]

[Replying to post 3 by rikuoamero]

Hey Riku!! How ya doing?

Actually, I think you are on to something! I know that perhaps you are using a little sarcasm, but nonetheless, in my book, it is a valid point. We have God, who used His voice to create the universe, a little refrigeration would not be too difficult...maybe they even had ice cream

Yes, it was sarcastic, and that is the point. Here we all are, trying to investigate if the Ark in the Noah's Ark story would have been sea-worthy at all. According to master shipbuilders, no it wasn't, and they base their opinions on known science. However, certain people here are waving away clear problems (such as ventilation or spoilage of food) by allowing for what is essentially magic, as if that somehow solves anything, allows for one to declare the story to be true.
Imagine if we took this approach in any other investigation, such as criminal cases. Imagine if John is accused of robbing the bank by Hank, only John says he couldn't have, since CCTV shows him to have been a hundred miles away at the time. That isn't a problem, says Hank, godly magic teleported John to the scene of the crime.
If we allow the ark to be declared sea-worthy in violation of all known science, if we hand-wave away any problems with the ship or the story by saying magic solved them...why do we bother using science at all?

[Peds nurse]

[Replying to post 3 by rikuoamero]

Hey Riku!! How ya doing?

Actually, I think you are on to something! I know that perhaps you are using a little sarcasm, but nonetheless, in my book, it is a valid point. We have God, who used His voice to create the universe, a little refrigeration would not be too difficult...maybe they even had ice cream

Yes, it was sarcastic, and that is the point. Here we all are, trying to investigate if the Ark in the Noah's Ark story would have been sea-worthy at all. According to master shipbuilders, no it wasn't, and they base their opinions on known science. However, certain people here are waving away clear problems (such as ventilation or spoilage of food) by allowing for what is essentially magic, as if that somehow solves anything, allows for one to declare the story to be true.
Imagine if we took this approach in any other investigation, such as criminal cases. Imagine if John is accused of robbing the bank by Hank, only John says he couldn't have, since CCTV shows him to have been a hundred miles away at the time. That isn't a problem, says Hank, godly magic teleported John to the scene of the crime.
If we allow the ark to be declared sea-worthy in violation of all known science, if we hand-wave away any problems with the ship or the story by saying magic solved them...why do we bother using science at all?

Hey Riku!!

Science serves a purpose. We can explore and figure out our surroundings. We can find ways to combat disease and save our environment through science. Science however, does not disprove there is a God, or limit His power. I mean, here you have the creator of the universe, if such a power exists within God, could it not be possible he caused food to not spoil? We are determining the power of God through human understanding, which in my opinion, we simply can't grasp. It is much like a wall of a great building, trying to prove the motives of the architect.

[rikuoamero]

[Replying to post 24 by Peds nurse]

PN, it is a violation of reason to just hand-wave away the problem of rotting food. In the real world, the world that you and I inhabit, we know for a fact that to store food requires refrigeration of some kind.
This would not have been present on the Ark. The technology to store and cool food would not have existed at the supposed time of the Ark. Therefore, if someone says that the food was not spoiled, we can be pretty sure that person is making baseless claims.

I mean, here you have the creator of the universe, if such a power exists within God, could it not be possible he caused food to not spoil?

So how do you determine whether God did Proposed Action A or Proposed Action B? Here's my proposed action. God teleported me to Alaska yesterday, sorta like we see in Star Trek (disappearing in one location, appearing in another).
Investigate my claim.

I'll give you a big hint - using your reasoning, you can't. My claim stands. According to you, God can do pretty much anything. Using your reasoning, literally ANYONE can make ANY claim and say that yes it did happen, God caused it to happen (non-spoilage of food, teleporting to Alaska, anything at all). With your reasoning, you have no choice but to believe pretty much any and all claims.
I know that you don't believe me anyway, that you won't believe that God teleported me to Alaska yesterday, and this shows the bias in your reasoning. You believe the godly magic claims that were written down in the Bible, but not from people like myself, even though both the Bible writers and myself are giving you quite literally the EXACT SAME LEVEL of evidence.

[Willum]

[Replying to rikuoamero]

Inspirational Riku -
Here's what really happened.

The Ark story didn't REALLY occur.

God just told the people who would eventually become Hebrew to incorporate a Sumerian children's story into their Holy Book.

I think everyone can agree, this resolves all paradoxes neatly!

[Clownboat]

[Replying to post 3 by rikuoamero]

Hey Riku!! How ya doing?

Actually, I think you are on to something! I know that perhaps you are using a little sarcasm, but nonetheless, in my book, it is a valid point. We have God, who used His voice to create the universe, a little refrigeration would not be too difficult...maybe they even had ice cream

Yes, it was sarcastic, and that is the point. Here we all are, trying to investigate if the Ark in the Noah's Ark story would have been sea-worthy at all. According to master shipbuilders, no it wasn't, and they base their opinions on known science. However, certain people here are waving away clear problems (such as ventilation or spoilage of food) by allowing for what is essentially magic, as if that somehow solves anything, allows for one to declare the story to be true.
Imagine if we took this approach in any other investigation, such as criminal cases. Imagine if John is accused of robbing the bank by Hank, only John says he couldn't have, since CCTV shows him to have been a hundred miles away at the time. That isn't a problem, says Hank, godly magic teleported John to the scene of the crime.
If we allow the ark to be declared sea-worthy in violation of all known science, if we hand-wave away any problems with the ship or the story by saying magic solved them...why do we bother using science at all?

Hey Riku!!

Science serves a purpose. We can explore and figure out our surroundings. We can find ways to combat disease and save our environment through science. Science however, does not disprove there is a God, or limit His power. I mean, here you have the creator of the universe, if such a power exists within God, could it not be possible he caused food to not spoil? We are determining the power of God through human understanding, which in my opinion, we simply can't grasp. It is much like a wall of a great building, trying to prove the motives of the architect.

The point for me is... If this god is willing to use magic, then just make all the sinners infertile or something. With magic, murdering virtually all life on the planet is not necessary.

Would you argue that this god concept enjoys murdering? If so, then a magical ark story can make sense. I don't see how it can make sense though unless this concept enjoys murdering sense with magic, no murdering would have been necessary.

[Kenisaw]

How did Noah keep the food from spoiling? Assuming the animals had to eat they would need copious amounts of vegetables, fruits, and meats. No freezing, refeogeration, and a high moisture content in the air would indicate the food stores would not last a year before spoiling occurred.

How do you know the moisture content of the ark? What exactly it was? How it came?

If the ark was built by the ideas that I have shown in the ark plans, I think there wouldn’t have been any moisture problems, because the structure can be well ventilated.
http://www.kolumbus.fi/r.berg/Noahs_Ark.html

Meat or equivalent: eggs, fish from the sea, fast breeding animals, milk
Vegetables: What animal can’t survive without vegetables?
Fruits: What animal can’t survive without fruits?

Also, it is possible that in the ark there was animals that were not yet fully grown. Even many carnivores drink milk, when they are still puppies. Maybe Noah had 7 really good cows.

Couple of points to the above statement.

Mammal milk is not the same for each species. Feeding cow milk to the vast majority of other species will cause them to die because it won't contain all the necessary nutrients, bacteria, and antibodies that each species requires.

I took a look at your drawing. I found it interesting. I was going to write up something about the instability of a flat bottom rectangular structure 6 times longer than it is wide, and how interlocking logs would not stand up to wave action very well. But then I realized that the design wouldn't even float. In the bottom of the boat, running down the center longways, there is a storage area for fresh water. Based on the scale this is roughly 15' by 15' square and 450' feet long (length of the boat). Per the first page of the design, water weighs 63 lb/CF (CF = cubic foot). The volume of that water storage area is 405,000 CF. That comes out to 3,190 tons of water. Also on the first page it notes that the available tonnage the boat could carry, after subtracting out the weight of the wood, is 5400 tons. So it can only carry 2210 tons of weight after the boat and fresh water is considered. But that isn't all the water you'd need. You'd also have to have storage tanks for clams, mussels, crayfish, etc that animals like otters, raccoons, and various birds eat. You can't keep them in your fresh water supply, their waste products would taint it pretty quickly. Considering all the water you need to carry, you'd barely have enough weight left over to carry the 75 tons of feed for just 2 elephants, or 75 tons for 2 hippos (and they like their food fresh by the way). The ark becomes too heavy pretty quickly. It can't float.

[1213]

Pee goes down hill, and not where you want it to.

Even if I want it to go downhill?

Oh, I saw your plans, I just didn't believe what I was seeing, I suppose - your plans say that it was solid wood on the bottom? Am I reading this right?

Basically yes. there would have been caps small gaps, but mostly solid.

How do you prevent the bottom from shearing off?

By the connections that are shown in the drawings.

Hi, it doesn't matter. It is called condensation, and anywhere the water touches this would be true. The coldness of the water?

How do you know the coldness of the water? To what is that belief based on? What exactly was the temperature of air and water?

[1213]

I have been respectful and polite regarding your plans, I actually read them in detail and took the time to discuss them with you. You catch me on a technicality about 1% of their diet and call me a liar.

I apologize, I shouldn’t have even hinted that you might have lied. Luckily I said “If… …?�, but still, it was not good thing. However, it is annoying when people make such claims, because it is sad if someone makes decisions with false information. For me, it is not a problem, if people don’t believe. Problem is, if people decide not to believe, because they believe false information.

Your gap jointed magic wood ship should not be given such courtesy when you make statements like

1. No great storm should be assumed(ignoring the storm that flooded the earth for 40 days)

But don’t you agree how storms are born, they need certain pressure differences that need hot and cold air. In cloudy weather, such conditions don’t easily come up.

2. No moisture in the boat because of your "ventilation" ignoring that whatever air that exists around the boat is saturated with moisture because it's floating on a giant ocean that covers even the mountains.

I don’t think you understand how moisture and saturation acts. But maybe I am wrong. Therefore I would like to know what do you think was the temperature of water and air during the flood?