What is your tablet for discrediting the Bible?

[sawthelight]

The Bible should stand alone as truthful without any error to be deemed as the true word of God. However, what happens when just one error in the Bible is found? Does it take just one error or is more of them required to discredit the Bible? How about having 8 solid errors to rock your faith?

One error may seem inconsequential but it still would deem God in error and the Bible as fallible and finite. But to add insult to injury when 8 blatant errors show up, it is safe to discard the Bible as nothing more than the sole concocting of human beings.

What is your tablet of Biblical errors that you find contradictory and have caused you to dismiss the Bible as a fallacy? What debates did you have that included these tablets of errors you had with Christian theists that left you disenchanted or in utter disappointment?



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Here is my list of debates with theists that came to an unsatisfactory conclusion:

1) The marriage parable [Matthew 22:30 VS. Revelation 21:9, Ephesians 5:25-27].
Jesus says no marriage will occur in heaven yet the Lamb (a.k.a Jesus) is standing with his bride in heaven after the Day of Judgement. No marriage is supposed to occur in heaven.

2) The mustard seed parable [Matthew 13:31-32].
Jesus claims as a fact that the Mustard seed is the smallest of all seeds in the Bible. Yet we know the Orchid seed is smaller than the Mustard seed. Jesus failed to be correct.

3) Faith VS. Deeds [Romans 2:6-10, Galatians 2:15-16 VS. James 2:14-24].
The Bible contradicts when Paul says ONLY FAITH allows a believer into heaven when James says that faith AND WORKS together earns salvation. Both contradict.

4) The Law is to be upheld. The Law is abolished [Matthew 5:17 VS. Ephesian 2:15].
Jesus came NOT TO abolish the Law but to uphold it. Paul says that the Law HAS BEEN ABOLISHED. Two opposing doctrines.

5) The Trinity is polytheism rather than monotheism [1 John 5:7-8 VS. John 14:28].
Somehow the Trinity is supposed to mean that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are all equal as one. Yet Jesus says "the Father is greater than I". Indication of unequal standings.

6) God is against God [Luke 4:5-7 & Revelations 11:16-18].
God gives away all authority on earth to Satan his enemy. He is also the suspect who killed his angels for destroying earth. A house divided against itself will not stand.

7) Children punished for sin of parents VS. The children no longer punished for parent's sin [Deuteronomy 5:9 VS. Ezekiel 18:1-30].
Shows that God has a changing nature.

8) God has a supposed unchanging nature [Hebrews 6:17].
Point # 7 indicates a change of nature. Being a distant and indifferent God in the OT to becoming a more approachable and accessible God in NT is a change of nature.


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These 8 points I bring up show blatant forgeries, contradictions, and errors that indicate that the God of Israel is nothing but an indecisive, inconsistent, charlatan who professes the supposed truth to the right way.

The word "right" however is synonymous with the words honest, legitimate, proper, and appropriate (Thesaurus.com).

The 8 points I listed above show me that the God of Israel is anything but "right." He is sporadic with his decrees which cost the lives of people for mistakes that God has made. God is not taking responsibility for the action he takes. The blame is shifted unto his creation who have no clue when things go awry.

This sounds a lot like big business being bailed out in US when they commit fraud on an international scale which results in tax payers paying for the mistakes of big business. How is that right at all? This example illustrates the God of Israel.

This allows me to leave Christianity with confidence and be certain of the choice I made as right. Writing out a list like this helps me compile my thoughts better to know why I left rather than have it all jumbled in my head. This is my tablet if you will.

What are your reasons for being disenchanted with Christianity? Can you make a list?

[Willum]

10. All the stories of the Bible are copied from others' myths, fables and fairy tales.

9. The three wisemen are stars of Orions belt that point to the Star Sirius, before Jesus arises on the 25th.

8. Hebrew has been dead twice and reconstructed conveniently.

7. So many of the paradoxes of the Bible are resolved by ambivalence from interpretation. The truth does not require interpretation. F = ma.

6. Lazarus should have been the next Pope, certainly the best advertisement Christianity could have, a man back from the dead! What was it like? The world would like to know, and he didn't tell us. He went on no tours and interviewed no Emperors or kings.

5. Prophesy of Isaiah describes Tiberius Caesar exactly and Caesar Augustus exactly, not Jesus.

4. OT was a verbal history, and NT written many years after Jesus supposed death.

3. Jesus endorses obeying the pagan monarchy of Rome - blasphemy.

2. Jesus endorses paying tithes to the God Augustus (Render to Caesar what is Caesars) - blasphemy.

And the number one reason for discrediting the Bible is:

1. Christians destroyed any knowledge or information they possibly could that ran contrary to Christianity:
Knowledge, medicine, history, language, other religions, engineering, astronomy, evolution and other sciences, weal and goodness, all to cover up something.

[sawthelight]

1) The marriage parable [Matthew 22:30 VS. Revelation 21:9, Ephesians 5:25-27].
Jesus says no marriage will occur in heaven yet the Lamb (a.k.a Jesus) is standing with his bride in heaven after the Day of Judgement. No marriage is supposed to occur in heaven.

Revelation is using marriage as a METAPHOR, you yourself call it a "parable" so obviously even you already know it is not literal. We know it is not literal because a marriage (biblically) is a union between a man (human) and a woman (human) in the sight of God and there are no humans in Heaven, so whatever Revelation 19 is speaking about it cannot be a literal marriage*.

In a similar way, there are no marriages in Heaven. The bible is speaking metaphorically, marriages in Heaven do not exist but metaphors evidently do.

*Revelation 19 is speaking about the start of the point when all spirit anointed Christians are finally united with Jesus in the Messianic Kingdom.

Ah yes. I see you've dodged Justin108's questions to answer mine. Another unsatisfactory conclusion. Let's continue for argunment sake.

Perhaps the marriage parable is not being literal. Let's say you're right. That means there will be a metaphorical marriage as you suggest.

However, what you have is Jesus saying that NO MARRIAGE will occur in Matthew, therefore NO MARRIAGE should occur at all whether it is a literal marriage or a metaphorical marriage.

Yet we see the Lamb with his bride in the End Times showing us that marriage will occur - either literally or metaphorically. Thus a contradiction. Thus falsehood on Jesus' part.

Thus it makes little difference now whether Jesus meant it literally or metaphorically. He proves himself wrong by contradicting himself in Revelations. His sole words don't match up.

[rikuoamero]

Why is it all or nothing? Why do some errors (absurdities, contradictions or atrocities) contained within the Bible make it a "fallacy" as a whole, as the OP seems to be suggesting?

Seems to me a single (or more) error only discredits the edifice of infallibility, not the value of of the Bible completely.

For this rational Theist, only God is perfect. To consider the Bible to be perfect is a form of idolatry, it seems to me.

The Bible is not perfect thus God is not perfect. God is then fallible as man. No need to worship a fallible God any longer. Waste of time.

How does that follow that if the Bible is not perfect, then God is not perfect? Non-sequiter.

Or conversely, why must a perfect God produce a perfect Bible?

If I take someone with an average high school level education and ask them to write a book on say biology, I'd expect them to not know that much, to make some mistakes. If I take someone in their second year of med school, I'd expect that person to know a lot more than the high schooler, but still to have a few mistakes here and there. If I take a neurosurgeon with thirty years education, I'd expect them to make few to no mistakes on the topic of medicine.
God is (supposedly) greater than all of them, supposedly knows all. So I don't expect any errors from him.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 32 by sawthelight]

Yes, metaphors by nature do not exist, that's what makes them metaphors.

Metaphorical marriages don't exist, they are just a linguistic tool; something that doesn't exist, cannot be used to demonstrate that it is something that does.

What next?! .... you try and buy a car with "metaphoric" money? How far will that get you? Do you think the police can arrest you for beating your metaphoric wife?

[sawthelight]

[Replying to post 32 by sawthelight]

Yes, metaphors by nature do not exist, that's what makes them metaphors.

Metaphorical marriages don't exist, they are just a linguistic tool; something that doesn't exist, cannot be used to demonstrate that it is something that does.

The Lamb with his bride mentioned in Revelations is not a metaphorical marriage?

What is it then, the literal marriage? Please enlighten us.

[sawthelight]

Also, last time I checked, metaphors are indications of something similar to it's meaning.

Dictionary.com definition:

a figure of speech in which a term or phrase is applied to something to which it is not literally applicable in order to suggest a resemblance, as in “A mighty fortress is our God.�

Let's use that example Dictionary.com illustrates: "A mighty fortress is our God."

So since you say that metaphors do not resemble the literal meaning does that mean that God is not really a "mighty fortress" at-all? To compare him to a "mighty fortress" is literally wrong?

Well I guess if it is wrong according to your logic to say that God is literally a "mighty fortress" why say this phrase at all? Do you like to preach what is false? Do you like to preach things that are not?

[sawthelight]

What next?! .... you try and buy a car with "metaphoric" money? How far will that get you? Do you think the police can arrest you for beating your metaphoric wife?

Police will still arrest you and throw you into a mental hospital for going around everywhere saying you beat up your "metaphoric" wife while trying to buy cars using your "metaphoric" money if you do that long enough.

So too for you to say that the Bible was using a metaphor means it was just speaking delusional nonsense as I demonstrated above. The Bible is going around everywhere with it's metaphors (empty words) to be thrown into a mental asylum in the end.

You like my metaphor?

Obviously a metaphor resembles the literal meaning. However you are say that it does not. Let's look at the dictionary:

Metaphor:
a figure of speech in which a term or phrase is applied to something to which it is not literally applicable in order to suggest a resemblance, as in “A mighty fortress is our God.�

I guess with the example the dictionary provides, God does not resemble a mighty fortress at all according to your logic. Good to know.

[Justin108]

Why would you need "enlightenment" on the point? You have already committed yourself to saying he wasn't always speaking in absolute terms, so naturally I presume you know what him speaking in absolute terms would look like.

Oh this is such a cop-out. You insist that Jesus was not speaking in absolutes but you refuse to support your claim?

okay, and if he was speaking in absolute terms (about seeds) then he would be speaking about what....?

You are stretching this out far more than it needs to be. Instead of asking me leading question, just give an answer.

Did Jesus speak in absolute terms in Matthew 13:31-32? Yes or no? If not, please support your claim.

All you're doing at this point is trying to make it sound like you're right by being condescending. Except that you're the only one here who actually thinks you're right. So please, I ask again, enlighten me... what does it mean to speak in absolutes and how was Jesus not speaking in absolutes in Matthew 13:31-32?

[Willum]

[Replying to sawthelight]

No it is not a metaphor. God can assume any shape he likes, and has chosen to do so in the spirit of Egyptian deities, in this case instead of the cow, like Hathor, or falcon, like Ra, he has chosen the lamb.
There is nothing wrong with that, you just need to arrive at the correct interpretation of scripture. The Holy Spirit can guide you.

[sawthelight]

[Replying to sawthelight]

No it is not a metaphor. God can assume any shape he likes, and has chosen to do so in the spirit of Egyptian deities, in this case instead of the cow, like Hathor, or falcon, like Ra, he has chosen the lamb.
There is nothing wrong with that, you just need to arrive at the correct interpretation of scripture. The Holy Spirit can guide you.

I'm confused. How is the marriage parable not a metaphor?

Either it is literal what Jesus is saying or it isn't (metaphorical).

So to say marriage will not occur in heaven then to be standing in heaven with his bride is pure contradiction. Perhaps Jesus is lying.