Created immortal (indestructable)?

[JehovahsWitness]

To my knowledge "immortality" is only spoken of as being a reward for certain faithful. What is the scriptural basis for saying "humans" were originally created immortal*?

- do you believe Satan is immortal?
- do you believe the wicked are immortal?

- do you believe God can destroy them (as in put an end to their existence) but will never choose to do this?

- do you believe God cannot (does not have the ability to) destroy them (put an end to their existence)?

Why?


*by immortal I mean basically "indestructable"

[postroad]

Any created being can be deleted. In fact God could simply will them out of existence. So then what. Evil exists and suffering exists at God's will. If evil and suffering will exist forever but seperate from Paradise they exist there at Gods good pleasure to do so. Pretty simple.

[ttruscott]

[Replying to post 1 by JehovahsWitness]

They were created mortal but resurected immortal.

Daniel 12:2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.

Why would HE are resurrect the wicked immortal when HE takes no pleasure in their death/damnation/suffering? Ezekiel 33:11 Say to them, 'As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, Surely as a premise, we can logically assume that if they are not immortal but mortal then HE would raise them mortal and only the righteous dead would be raised immortal. HE does all things for HIS pleasure Revelation 4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created. Obviously no one was created for an eternal hell so why would HE break HIS pleasure and resurrect mortals to immortality just to go to hell?

HIS loving holiness demands that IF anyone is not saved, it is because they cannot BE saved. IF anyone is in hell, it is because they were immortal by creation before their resurrection.

[ttruscott]

Postroad seems to be accurate from a biblical perspective. I like the way Paul put in First Corinthians 15.

“Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed – in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.�

Is he talking about spirit who is dead, that is, non-existent, being brought to life/existence, or is he talking about a "dead" spirit, that is, one whose body has decayed, coming back into life in a body? IF 'death' only means non-existence, then they do not exist and resurrection means a new person in the fulness of the old...not a hard thing to convey. But these words would also fit an IMMORTAL SPIRIT whose body is dead (and without a body this spirit is also considered to be dead, that is, a ghost.) being resurrected to an immortal body.

We know (mostly: nod to the JWs) the spirits return to Sheol, Ps 9:17, while their bodies decay and there is no definitive proof that the verse doesn't refer to their mortal bodies being resurrected to immortality, not their (already) immortal spirits. If the spirit is raised from Sheol then it has already survived death so only the body was mortal.

[ttruscott]

To my knowledge "immortality" is only spoken of as being a reward for certain faithful. What is the scriptural basis for saying "humans" were originally created immortal*?

There isn't any. Genesis 3:3 says:

"...but God did say, 'You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.'"

Obviously that means Adam and Eve were mortal. I don't know how you go from being immortal to mortal.

Once they were given mortal / earthly bodies this verse easily fits into the immortal spirit, mortal body until after the resurrection ideation.

[ttruscott]

So you believe Satan is immortal. Was he created immortal or do you believe Satan was at some point given immortality?

He must have been created that way IF he suffers eternally in hell as I do not conceive of a loving GOD raising him from death to immortality just to go to hell.

[JehovahsWitness]

Any created being can be deleted. In fact God could simply will them out of existence. So then what. Evil exists and suffering exists at God's will. If evil and suffering will exist forever but seperate from Paradise they exist there at Gods good pleasure to do so. Pretty simple.

This seems logical to me, although it is not absolutely clear if some believe evil will exist forever because God is incapable of accessing an alternative solution.

If God had the ability to destroy Satan by putting an end to his existence, then why not do that now? So my answer is no.

Was that a "No" I don't believe God is powerful enough to put an end to Satan's existence?

[ttruscott]

Any created being can be deleted. In fact God could simply will them out of existence.

Unproven premise.

So then what. Evil exists and suffering exists at God's will. If evil and suffering will exist forever but seperate from Paradise they exist there at Gods good pleasure to do so.

This conclusion only fits if the premise is true.

The Bible, our only source, can be interpreted as saying that we are eternal and eternal evil in hell isn't HIS will but came into existence by the choice of HIS creature to choose to become eternally evil against HIS will and pleasure. The verse does say GOD takes no pleasure in the destruction of the wicked...

AS I have argued before - if we were not created as immortal persons then HE would not raise the wicked dead to immortality just to extend their suffering.

[dio9]

To my knowledge "immortality" is only spoken of as being a reward for certain faithful. What is the scriptural basis for saying "humans" were originally created immortal*?

- do you believe Satan is immortal?
- do you believe the wicked are immortal?

- do you believe God can destroy them (as in put an end to their existence) but will never choose to do this?

- do you believe God cannot (does not have the ability to) destroy them (put an end to their existence)?

Why?


*by immortal I mean basically "indestructable"

look to yourself , Good always has a slight advantage over Evil.

[postroad]

[Replying to post 17 by ttruscott]
Will scriptural proof suffice?[quote]
Job 34:13-15New International Version (NIV)

13 Who appointed him over the earth?
Who put him in charge of the whole world?
14 If it were his intention
and he withdrew his spirit[a] and breath,
15 all humanity would perish together
and mankind would return to the dust.[quote]

[Claire Evans]

- do you believe Satan is immortal?

Yes. Revelation 20:10 supports that:

And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

So you believe Satan is immortal. Was he created immortal or do you believe Satan was at some point given immortality?

He wasn't created. He just was just like God is.