Theists sometimes DO ask questions. Here is an example from a current thread:
Right about what?
Reading my signature with some comprehension indicates that my position is that ANY of the thousands of proposed 'gods' MAY be real and may affect human lives – AND that I await verifiable evidence upon which to base an informed, intelligent, reasoned decision.
Is there any reason that I should 'hurry up' and make a decision when the ONLY 'evidence' presented consists of unverifiable tales and testimonials (ancient or modern) plus emotional appeals? I do not take anyone's unverifiable word as a basis for making ANY important decisions. Should I make an exception for religious matters? If so, why?
I take NO position regarding 'mindless, random energy'. Kindly debate what I actually present.Volbrigade wrote: What if mindless, random energy is “all there is, all there was, and all there ever will be�?
Notice that I take no position on that matter. Kindly debate what I actually say rather than things I do not say.Volbrigade wrote: What if all we are is a temporary arrangement of matter? A pattern, here today and gone, forever, tomorrow?
My life and the lives of (some) others make a difference to me, as does the environment, because I (we) live in the real world.Volbrigade wrote: What possible difference could that make? In fact — what possible difference could anything make?
What you believe could not possibly make any less difference to me. Discussing / debating these ideas with you involved is simply a way for me to present READERS with ideas that contrast with those presented by Theists.Volbrigade wrote: And what difference would it make if I believed otherwise?
I trust that some / many readers are fully capable of evaluating the merits, credibility, verifiability of what is presented and to use whatever they find has merit in their own thinking.
That belief makes NO difference UNLESS and UNTIL it is presented in public debate as though true. In which case, I challenge any claim of truth and accuracy – asking for verifiable evidence to support the pronouncements.Volbrigade wrote: If I chose to believe a complex, imaginary fable about an eternal Mind that created a space-time environment; a fable which explained the cause of man’s depravity, and the way out of it —even if it was all just an ancient and ongoing fabrication, what difference does it make?
When the 'evidence' presented is nothing more than unverifiable tales and testimonials (ancient or modern, oral or written), readers are invited to consider its credibility.
I pictures no deformed child. Perhaps there are some wires crossed?Volbrigade wrote: And what difference does it make that energy occasionally arranges itself in patterns such as the deformed child you pictured?
Human brains have great potential to instigate actions in all manner of directions – which include slaughtering people or helping people.Volbrigade wrote: Or generates patterns in the matter that composes human brains that motivates them to slaughter each other over territories or genetics or ideas?
Many Religionists seem to think that religion is what keeps them from slaughtering (or raping or stealing or whatever) and that religion is what motivates them to do benevolent things. Perhaps that is true for them personally – but does not extend beyond them to everyone else.
It makes no difference at all to me what you 'do with your own little pattern of energy' PROVIDED it does not affect me or others I care about.Volbrigade wrote: What difference does it make what I do with my own little pattern of energy, during the brief period of time it is integrated and possesses the consciousness to make determinations as to what it does?
If I am the 'obstacle to be removed' so someone can accomplish an objective, they are likely to 'meet their maker' before intended (any my attitude is not hypothetical).Volbrigade wrote: And if, for instance, someone should be in the way of my obtaining some objective that would please my consciousness, what difference does it make what I do to them in order to remove them as an obstacle?
I typically attempt to answer coherent questions. I am always prepared to substantiate any claims I make or arguments I present.Volbrigade wrote: I’m just asking. Do you have an answer for me?
You have shown that you have absolutely no comprehension of my belief system.Volbrigade wrote: Is it possible that even if your belief system is true,
I do not and have not thought or said anything suggesting 'mindless matter'. That is a 'stinky fish' (red herring) thrown in, perhaps to try to make an argument.Volbrigade wrote: and mindless matter and energy is all that ever was or will be:
I see no 'better' in real life by those who profess to being 'subject to . . .� some sort of afterlife. Christians who preach such things are incarcerated at rates no 'better' than other groups, have divorce rates that are no 'better' than others, and have half a million abortions per year in the US (while condemning the practice).Volbrigade wrote: that it would be BETTER if we lived as though we were subject to living forever, based on what we do during our temporary pattern of consciousness, before we revert back to our eternal elements of mindless matter-energy?
WHERE is the 'better'?
Those who find benefit in 'living a lie' are welcome to do so. I prefer to live by what I can understand and learn about the real world.Volbrigade wrote: Even if that would mean “living a lie�, so to speak?
Many would apparently be LOST without their religion telling them what to think and do.Volbrigade wrote: Or would that make any difference, either?
Perhaps those who rely upon one of the thousands of gods or thousands of religions are well advised to keep doing so (to avoid running amok if they had to rely upon their own ethics, judgment, discernment, decision-making).Volbrigade wrote: And if so — in what way?
However, the dependent should not attempt to inflict their limitations and personal problems onto others – who do not share those limitations and problems.