Does God have to be fair and just to be a God?

[sawthelight]

I know I am going to be condemned for posting this but I think it is a fair question.

Do people think that God must be fair and just for him to exist?

If we look at our history books that date back to the inception of writing there is nothing but war plagued throughout the entire timeline up to now.

Most recent colonizing from the British and French motherlands sent their people to take over foreign land that involved displacing many Aboriginals by killing, deceiving, giving swine flu, etc.

Could our founding forefathers be considered as thieves for taking what was not theirs initially?

I mean I enjoy the freedoms we have here in Canada and do like the set up of the system overall. It would be hard to just hand over this land back to all Native people and watch them boot us non-Aboriginals out of Canada.

However this is something I have thought about and pondered if it is the right thing to do. What would happen if US and Canada gave their land back to the First Nations, to correct the first transgression of theft? Is it possible to give them some chunk of land back or would we have to correct it all?

Does this mean that God is with Canada and the US as affirmed by their national anthem (O'Canada) and the currency (In God We Trust)? Does this mean that God is unjust or unfair? or is it the opposite? or is God not involved at all whatsoever?

[Joe1950]

[Replying to post 1 by sawthelight]

Since god is the creation of man, the concept of god being fair or just would depend on which society you want to focus on.
For example, in Saudi Arabia, Allah demands that the hands be cut off of a thief and a woman be flogged if she has been raped. That would be fair and just.
In the US, Allah would not expect those punishments to be fair. In other words , an American Muslim would have quite a different sense of Allah's "justice" than a Saudi Muslim.

The same for Jews, Christians, etc. throughout history.
For example, in the USA in the first half of the 19th century it was considered the will of Jesus that slaves could be kept. At the same time in Europe and parts of the northern USA , Christian felt it was the will of Jesus to prevent slavery. It was not a "just" system.

In most countries the religion practiced varies by the political, economic and cultural dictates of the society.

[Carlz]

[Replying to post 4 by ttruscott]

I have never heard that before. Where does that theology come from?

[Carlz]

[[url=http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 485#853485]Replying to post 11 by Joe1950[/urlyes HE is a beyond just and fair. HE is with all people who believe in HIM and even those who aren't. HE loves us more than we can even love ourselves. If HE was just and fair there would be none of us left. He HE sent HIS only SON so we are seen righteous in HIS site. HE gives us forgiveness of sins and ever lasting life. As I look at the past of this world humanity is out to destroy itself but HE gives us hope. HE is a justand righteous GOD, beyond fair.

[Carlz]

[Replying to post 11 by Joe1950]

We are GODS creations not the reverse. Slaves were treated as servants and most didn't even want to leave their homes where they served. If you look at OT scripture they were treated with dignity and respect. Men can say in JESUS name or GODS WILL really does not make it so. JESUS said when you come to ME and say you knew ME and didn't we do good works in your name? And I said to them you never knew me. We can claim to be Christian but really we are not.

[JP Cusick]

I know I am going to be condemned for posting this but I think it is a fair question.

Do people think that God must be fair and just for him to exist?

If we look at our history books that date back to the inception of writing there is nothing but war plagued throughout the entire timeline up to now.

Most recent colonizing from the British and French motherlands sent their people to take over foreign land that involved displacing many Aboriginals by killing, deceiving, giving swine flu, etc.

Could our founding forefathers be considered as thieves for taking what was not theirs initially?

I mean I enjoy the freedoms we have here in Canada and do like the set up of the system overall. It would be hard to just hand over this land back to all Native people and watch them boot us non-Aboriginals out of Canada.

However this is something I have thought about and pondered if it is the right thing to do. What would happen if US and Canada gave their land back to the First Nations, to correct the first transgression of theft? Is it possible to give them some chunk of land back or would we have to correct it all?

Does this mean that God is with Canada and the US as affirmed by their national anthem (O'Canada) and the currency (In God We Trust)? Does this mean that God is unjust or unfair? or is it the opposite? or is God not involved at all whatsoever?

I agree with others that humans are very poor at judging what is fair or just.

When I look honestly at my own miserable life then I can see that I reap-as-I-sowed and therefore God is being just and fair to me in my unhappiness.

The US and Britain are notorious but there is a book about prophesy which dares to paint a far different picture, see here the condensed version in chapter 9 = The United States and Britain in Prophesy:

As to the aboriginals and native American Indians - then were they really just or fair from the view of God who created them, and who had expectations of them for which they never fulfilled?

The native Indians were not peaceful loving or even friendly people, as they clung tight to their barbaric practices, and even when confronted with the overwhelming force of the white colonial invaders the natives resisted instead of submitting to the justice of God.

The same was done in Nazi Germany who had done horrible evils and yet the Nazis resisted to their bitter end when the justice of God came calling through the force of the Allied Armies.

Remember the point of this beautiful song = Mine eyes have seen the coming ... trampling out the grapes of wrath

[JehovahsWitness]

I know I am going to be condemned for posting this but I think it is a fair question.

Do people think that God must be fair and just for him to exist?

I think that if we are talking about a Creator then he doesn't have to be fair, he either is or he is not. Wether the two are related would depend on his nature.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 16 by JehovahsWitness]

I should add I believe the True God JEHOVAH is both fair and just.

I don't think that being unfair is how He acts, ever.


JW

[Monta]

[Replying to post 15 by JP Cusick]


"The native Indians were not peaceful loving or even friendly people, as they clung tight to their barbaric practices, and even when confronted with the overwhelming force of the white colonial invaders the natives resisted instead of submitting to the justice of God. "

Submitting to the white colonial invaders
is submitting to the justice of God?

[TSGracchus]

[Replying to post 18 by Monta]

JP Cusick: "The native Indians were not peaceful loving or even friendly people, as they clung tight to their barbaric practices, and even when confronted with the overwhelming force of the white colonial invaders the natives resisted instead of submitting to the justice of God."

Monta: "Submitting to the white colonial invaders is submitting to the justice of God?"

“As a rule God is on the side of the big squadrons against the small ones.� -- Roger de Rabutin

Funny how that works out, isn't it?

[Tired of the Nonsense]

I know I am going to be condemned for posting this but I think it is a fair question.

Do people think that God must be fair and just for him to exist?

If we look at our history books that date back to the inception of writing there is nothing but war plagued throughout the entire timeline up to now.

Most recent colonizing from the British and French motherlands sent their people to take over foreign land that involved displacing many Aboriginals by killing, deceiving, giving swine flu, etc.

Could our founding forefathers be considered as thieves for taking what was not theirs initially?

I mean I enjoy the freedoms we have here in Canada and do like the set up of the system overall. It would be hard to just hand over this land back to all Native people and watch them boot us non-Aboriginals out of Canada.

However this is something I have thought about and pondered if it is the right thing to do. What would happen if US and Canada gave their land back to the First Nations, to correct the first transgression of theft? Is it possible to give them some chunk of land back or would we have to correct it all?

Does this mean that God is with Canada and the US as affirmed by their national anthem (O'Canada) and the currency (In God We Trust)? Does this mean that God is unjust or unfair? or is it the opposite? or is God not involved at all whatsoever?

I agree with others that humans are very poor at judging what is fair or just.

When I look honestly at my own miserable life then I can see that I reap-as-I-sowed and therefore God is being just and fair to me in my unhappiness.

The US and Britain are notorious but there is a book about prophesy which dares to paint a far different picture, see here the condensed version in chapter 9 = The United States and Britain in Prophesy:

As to the aboriginals and native American Indians - then were they really just or fair from the view of God who created them, and who had expectations of them for which they never fulfilled?

The native Indians were not peaceful loving or even friendly people, as they clung tight to their barbaric practices, and even when confronted with the overwhelming force of the white colonial invaders the natives resisted instead of submitting to the justice of God.

The same was done in Nazi Germany who had done horrible evils and yet the Nazis resisted to their bitter end when the justice of God came calling through the force of the Allied Armies.

Remember the point of this beautiful song = Mine eyes have seen the coming ... trampling out the grapes of wrath

"Barbaric ways" is a point of view.

� NITS MAKE LICE . KILL THEM ALL…..�

A campaign of extermination was waged against the Colorado Indians after they were falsely accused of stealing 175 cattle, after they had attempted to make peace, and after they had handed over most of their weapons. The kind of scenes described below were replicated over and over again through the centuries, in America as in Ireland.

When a junior officer, Lieutenant Cramer, protested to Colonel Chivington against his attack on an Indian band (that means families of men, women and children), Chivington said: “I have come to kill Indians, and believe that it is right and honourable to use any means under God’s heaven to kill Indians.�
According to Cramer, Chivington ordered his troops to: “Kill and scalp all, big and little; nits make lice.�

Chivington, a former Methodist minister, commanded a force of 700 soldiers against 500 Indians at Sand Creek, of whom about 100 were men of fighting age. The rest were women, children and old men.

Robert Bent, Chivington’s guide, reported:
“After the firing the warriors put the squaws and children together, and surrounded them to protect them. I saw five squaws under a bank for shelter. When the troops came up to them they ran out and showed their persons, to let the soldiers know they were squaws and begged for mercy, but the soldiers shot them all.There were some thirty or forty squaws collected in a hole for protection; they sent out a little girl about six years old with a white flag on a stick, she had not proceeded but a few steps when she was shot and killed. All the squaws in that hole were afterwards killed, and four or five bucks outside. The squaws offered no resistance. Every one I saw dead was scalped. I saw one squaw cut open with an unborn child, as I thought, lying by her side. Captain Soule afterwards told me that such was the fact .I saw quite a number of infants in arms killed with their mothers.�
https://11sixtynine.wordpress.com/2008/ ... -them-all/

It was widely reported after the massacre, that some of the soldiers removed the female parts of the native American women and used them to decorate their saddle horns.

So I repeat, "Barbaric ways is a point point of view."