Sudan Ph.D. Student makes Excellent Point.

[Divine Insight]

This young student was held and even handcuffed at the airport because of Trump's ban against Muslims coming in from these Muslim countries.

She made a really good point. This is as ridiculous as it would be for Trump to sign an executive order to have White Males banned from the streets of America just because Dylann Roof is a white supremacist who shot up a black church.

[youtube][/youtube]

[benchwarmer]

[Replying to post 1 by Divine Insight]

Agreed, this policy is ridiculous and will not stop a single determined terrorist from entering the country. There is all manner of illegal people and substances pouring into the U.S. via other modes than commercial transportation.

All Trump has done is create more hatred and probably more terrorists. It's probably going to get to the point that home grown terrorists will rise up as they can't take these stupid policies anymore. Good luck banning them.

[Divine Insight]

It's probably going to get to the point that home grown terrorists will rise up as they can't take these stupid policies anymore.

My thoughts exactly. Plus if that happens then Trump will just use that as an excuse to crack down on Muslims and Mosques already in the USA and that will just create more animosity causing more outliers to go off the deep end and react violently and the whole thing will just snowball into extreme chaos within the USA itself.

Both Obama and Hillary knew better than this and they both predicted that this is precisely what will happen if provoked by an incompetent president. And that's precisely what Donald Trump is proving to be.

Donald Trump appears to be someone who is already cowering in extreme fear of the terrorists and reacting precisely as the terrorists are trying to get him to react. In other words Donald Trump is behaving as someone who is indeed terrorized by terrorists.

Consider the following data:

This graph compares deaths caused by Gun violence in the USA verses global terrorism:



It's pretty clear that Gun Violence in America is far more threatening to our safety than terrorism is.

This graph includes the 9/11 attack on the world trade center towers.

Yet compare the numbers:

406,496 deaths due to domestic gun violence
3,380 deaths due to terrorism.

That's less than 1% of deaths in America caused by terrorism.

In other words, gun violence in the USA is over 99% more deadly than terrorism.

Yet Donald Trump is dancing to the tune of a few radical terrorist groups. It's truly like they are shooting at his feet and he's dancing to the tune of their gunshots.

And he's appealing to the fear of Americans who don't even understand that they are in far more danger from their fellow Americans than they are from any foreign terrorists.

And he's handing ISIS a VICTORY in having terrorized him to the hilt. ISIS has Donald Trump trembling in fear to the point where he can't even think clearly. Although it's questionable whether Donald Trump has the ability to think clearly even on his best day.

[bluethread]

Sorry, she was not detained because she was Muslim, or African. She was detained because she was a noncitizen from a country on Obama's terrorist watch list. The comparison to Dylann Roof ignores the two actual reasons and seeks to focus on things that were not actual reasons for her detention. Though citizens have the right to not be arrested without probable cause, they can and have been held for up to 24 hrs. without being charged with a crime all of the time. Non-citizens are not afforded the right to demand probable cause and this woman was not held for over 24 hours, though the prohibition against that does not apply to non-citizens.

Your argument against guns is also fallacious, because it is only based on mortality statistics. Using that basis, driving should be illegal, because more people are killed by drivers than by gun owners.

[WinePusher]

Sorry, she was not detained because she was Muslim, or African. She was detained because she was a noncitizen from a country on Obama's terrorist watch list. The comparison to Dylann Roof ignores the two actual reasons and seeks to focus on things that were not actual reasons for her detention. Though citizens have the right to not be arrested without probable cause, they can and have been held for up to 24 hrs. without being charged with a crime all of the time. Non-citizens are not afforded the right to demand probable cause and this woman was not held for over 24 hours, though the prohibition against that does not apply to non-citizens.

Your argument against guns is also fallacious, because it is only based on mortality statistics. Using that basis, driving should be illegal, because more people are killed by drivers than by gun owners.

Nice job destroying Divine Insight's terribly weak and misinformed arguments.

But my take on this issue may differ slightly from yours. A generalized travel ban barring citizens from specific countries from entry into the United States was a reckless thing to do, and the consequences are being highlighted as we speak. We have American allies of Iraqi descent being prohibited from entry, as well as proper green card holders and others with work permits. Yes, Trump and his team are trying to fix these "glitches" in his executive order, but all of this should have been thought out in advance and only reinforces the stereotype that Trump is an impulsive, trigger happy lunatic.

I support dismantling the Syrian refugee program due to the fact that top American intelligence officials have openly said that proper vetting under these circumstances is close to impossible, and also due to the hundreds of people killed in France and Germany. But as I've said from the outset, a blanketed ban of people belonging to a certain religion, or nationality in this case, is NOT the right thing to do.

[Divine Insight]

She was detained because she was a noncitizen from a country on Obama's terrorist watch list.

And Obama knew better than to just ban all citizens from those countries from entering into the USA. Why isn't Trump as intelligent as Obama?

If you're going to point to the wisdom of Obama then do so. In the meantime there's no excuse for Trump to be over-reacting in extreme cowardly fear of terrorists. Especially when they are hardly a threat to the USA at all.

And yes, gun control in the USA should be looked into seriously. As should automotive safety as these both clearly kill more American citizens than terrorism. In fact, we ought to talk about death due to alcohol too.

The CDC says that some 80,000 deaths each year are attributable to excessive alcohol use. So you’re 4,706 times more likely to drink yourself to death than die from terrorism. Link here

So our local bars are far more dangerous than people coming in from countries that contain some terrorist elements.

When we give into the fear, the terrorists win. The very goal of terrorism is to terrify their targets. Clearly they have Trump totally terrified.

Obama wasn't so gullible.

[DanieltheDragon]

[Replying to post 5 by WinePusher

I support dismantling the Syrian refugee program due to the fact that top American intelligence officials have openly said that proper vetting under these circumstances is close to impossible, and also due to the hundreds of people killed in France and Germany. But as I've said from the outset, a blanketed ban of people belonging to a certain religion, or nationality in this case, is NOT the right thing to do

I don't see how this is a reason to dismantle the Syrian refugee program as the Syrian refugees were not involved in those terror events. As before with Iranian, Iraqi, and Cuban refugees we have gained as a country with fiercely patriotic citizens.

It is my belief that it is encumbent for us to face terrorism with courage and a firm commitment to our values and not cower to what the terrorists want.

[WinePusher]

I don't see how this is a reason to dismantle the Syrian refugee program as the Syrian refugees were not involved in those terror events.

How many times have I proven you wrong on this? And yet you still think it's wise to repeat your demonstrably false claims? Do you care about facts? Do you care about reality? Or do you just make up your own facts like Trump?

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/06/worl ... .html?_r=0
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... s-into-re/

But hey, I've shown you the facts before, and all you do is ignore them. Just admit you're wrong for once Daniel. Is it really that hard for you to admit that you're wrong on this issue?

It's probably best if you NEVER EVER complain about creationists and how they aren't able to admit they're wrong.

It is my belief that it is encumbent for us to face terrorism with courage and a firm commitment to our values and not cower to what the terrorists want.

And this is why Trump won! He won because of people like you! You see, the majority of Americans hate your immoral ideas. It's easy to put other people's lives in jeopardy huh Daniel. You're able to talk about "courage" just as long as it's no about your own life huh. It's OK, in your twisted world, that numerous people were shot and blown up in San Bernardino, in Kentucky, and in the Boston Marathon.

[DanieltheDragon]

[Replying to post 8 by WinePusher]

How many times have I proven you wrong on this? And yet you still think it's wise to repeat your demonstrably false claims? Do you care about facts? Do you care about reality? Or do you just make up your own facts like Trump?

What have you proven me wrong about? Your two links referred to North African related terrorists and Algerians not Syrians. I don't even think you know what our policy is with regards to how we let refugees in. It is certainly easier for ISIS to use that strategy in Europe because of the complicated nature of their immigration system.

It doesn't really work here because our vetting process is both longer and more intrusive. It would simply be easier to get a visa and overstay your trip. Notice the lack of travel bans to Algeria and North Africa.

[DanieltheDragon]

[Replying to post 8 by WinePusher]

And this is why Trump won! He won because of people like you! You see, the majority of Americans hate your immoral ideas. It's easy to put other people's lives in jeopardy huh Daniel. You're able to talk about "courage" just as long as it's no about your own life huh. It's OK, in your twisted world, that numerous people were shot and blown up in San Bernardino, in Kentucky, and in the Boston Marathon.

Glad to see you know how to lie and slander effectively. Did I say it was ok that people were shot up in the Boston Marathon, San Bernardino, and Kentuky? Would I not effectively be putting my own life at risk to? Or do I not live in America like I thought?

no Trump won because of sniveling cowards who gobble up the nonsense and rhetoric of alt right extremists and are to dumb to be able to think their way out of it. Then again Trump only got ~25% of eligible voters. So maybe we should blame the apathy of the 47% who didn't bother voting.

Is Islamic terrorism a problem? Duh.
Are Syrian refugees Islamic Terrorists? None that I am aware of so far.
Have Syrians faced the atrocities first hand from ISIS? Yes
Is it Immoral to want to protect people from ISIS? According to you it is.