Was Jesus' death necessary? If so, why?

[Justin108]

Was Jesus' death necessary? In what way did Jesus' death/sacrifice benefit humanity? Could God not achieve what he intended without Jesus dying?

[Hawkins]

Was Jesus' death necessary? In what way did Jesus' death/sacrifice benefit humanity? Could God not achieve what he intended without Jesus dying?

Let me draw you the big picture on why it's necessary.


God's plan is to build an eternity we call heaven where entities with freewill (such as angels and humans) will live with the sin-incompatible God forever.

To achieve this;

Law is setup as a necessity to qualify which entities can enter. The judgment by this absolute set of Law is applicable to humans and angels alike.

Law defines what behavior is not accepted by the sin-incompatible God. It is necessary for entities with freewill to live with God in an eternal realm.

Satan on the other hand tried to screw up God's plan by tempting the first lineage of humans. In current realm of God, any entities sinned must be driven out of God's realm. As a result, Adam was kicked out of Eden.

Since then all humans are living outside God's realm, and thus under the deep influence of Satan and his angels. Under this influence humans have no hope in entering the future heaven by passing the final judgment of Law.

God's grace is thus needed to save them (re-qualify them). God's Grace doesn't come with no cost. Like I said in another thread, if God can pardon anyone at will then His realm is not a lawful realm but a lawless realm. That's why the Christian God demands legitimacy and open witnessing all the times.

As a result, Jesus' blood is required for a series of covenants to be signed off for God to grant His Grace to humans. By the covenants, the so-called righteous will be identified from the wicked, and with the righteous brought to the future heaven legitimately. With Satan's influence stopped and lifted, the qualified righteous humans are those capable of living with God in the eternal heaven.

[Justin108]

To achieve this;

Law is setup as a necessity to qualify which entities can enter.

What is that law exactly? A quote from the Bible would be helpful

As a result, Adam was kicked out of Eden.

Since then all humans are living outside God's realm...

Wait why did all humans get kicked out of Eden when Adam was the one that screwed up?

and thus under the deep influence of Satan and his angels. Under this influence humans have no hope in entering the future heaven by passing the final judgment of Law.

Why didn't God just get rid of Satan?

God's grace is thus needed to save them (re-qualify them). God's Grace doesn't come with no cost.

Why not? What is the cost exactly?

Like I said in another thread, if God can pardon anyone at will then His realm is not a lawful realm but a lawless realm.

Are we not pardoned? Didn't God forgive our sins?

That's why the Christian God demands legitimacy and open witnessing all the times.

As a result, Jesus' blood is required

Wait you skipped a step there...

You tell me "a payment is needed" then suddenly "and that payment is Jesus' blood". Why is that payment Jesus' blood? Why isn't it... say... a bag of Cheetos?

With Satan's influence stopped and lifted, the qualified righteous humans are those capable of living with God in the eternal heaven.

Why couldn't God stop Satan's influence some other way? And why did he wait so long to stop Satan?

[rikuoamero]

[Replying to post 60 by Monta]

...so no relevance then? I would say thanks for the "contribution" but...

[rikuoamero]

[Replying to post 61 by Hawkins]

Would you say the US is lawless then given that people have been pardoned?

[Monta]

[Replying to post 62 by Justin108]


"Wait why did all humans get kicked out of Eden when Adam was the one that screwed up?"

Sin enterd human consciousness.

[Justin108]

[Replying to post 62 by Justin108]


"Wait why did all humans get kicked out of Eden when Adam was the one that screwed up?"

Sin enterd human consciousness.

God couldn't just... remove sin from our consciousness?

[JJ50]

[Replying to post 1 by Justin108]

If god exists, is omnipotent and humanity needed saving, surely it could have come up with a better way of going about it!

[Monta]

[Replying to Justin108]


"God couldn't just... remove sin from our consciousness?"

Not really, the experience has changed us. We've become something we were not before therefore teaching has been given like you must be born again etc.

[Justin108]

God couldn't just... remove sin from our consciousness?

Not really, the experience has changed us. We've become something we were not before therefore teaching has been given like you must be born again etc.

So God isn't omnipotent then?

[rikuoamero]

[Replying to Justin108]


"God couldn't just... remove sin from our consciousness?"

Not really, the experience has changed us. We've become something we were not before therefore teaching has been given like you must be born again etc.

By 'we', do you mean all humans? So what about immediately after Adam and Eve ate the fruit, before they started having descendants? Why not just remove the sin from those two, or have some sort of barrier or do something at all to prevent their offspring from having this 'sin' thing?