Isn't 'forgiveness' wonderful?

[Zzyzx]

.
Pastor received standing ovation from congregation

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... tryst.html

A married pastor gets caught committing adultery with a parishioner who is married, runs away naked – and just asks for forgiveness and gets a standing ovation from this congregation.

Is this part of what is billed as a superior moral code?

[ttruscott]

.
Pastor received standing ovation from congregation

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... tryst.html

A married pastor gets caught committing adultery with a parishioner who is married, runs away naked – and just asks for forgiveness and gets a standing ovation from this congregation.

Is this part of what is billed as a superior moral code?

If you were inclined - how would you forgive him?

[Zzyzx]

.

A married pastor gets caught committing adultery with a parishioner who is married, runs away naked – and just asks for forgiveness and gets a standing ovation from this congregation.

Is this part of what is billed as a superior moral code?

If you were inclined - how would you forgive him?

I am NOT inclined to forgive him. A person purporting to be a moral leader / teacher who gets caught with his pants down (or off) in that sort of situation has earned the response of being relieved of duty and blacklisted (situation made known) so other churches might avoid hiring him.

[ttruscott]

.

A married pastor gets caught committing adultery with a parishioner who is married, runs away naked – and just asks for forgiveness and gets a standing ovation from this congregation.

Is this part of what is billed as a superior moral code?

If you were inclined - how would you forgive him?

I am NOT inclined to forgive him. A person purporting to be a moral leader / teacher who gets caught with his pants down (or off) in that sort of situation has earned the response of being relieved of duty and blacklisted (situation made known) so other churches might avoid hiring him.

Can you define the line of forgiveness/ unforgiveness? What if he was just feeling her up and got caught? What if he was just kissing her?

Or:
Does pastor always mean "purported to be a moral leader / teacher" or just an ordinary (ie, sinful) human who encourages fellowship among believers? I mean, how much sin does it take before you condemn a pastor of crossing the line between forgiveness / unforgiveness?

Do you keep this same attitude with your own circle friends, and family? Would you judge them the same? I accept it if you say you would...

but consider:
within every judgement is the self righteousness of 'thank GOD I am not like that man' and within every forgiveness is the hidden thought, 'I'll forgive because I too am guilty.'

[Zzyzx]

.

I am NOT inclined to forgive him. A person purporting to be a moral leader / teacher who gets caught with his pants down (or off) in that sort of situation has earned the response of being relieved of duty and blacklisted (situation made known) so other churches might avoid hiring him.

Can you define the line of forgiveness/ unforgiveness? What if he was just feeling her up and got caught? What if he was just kissing her?

Reading the article, Ted, the pastor was naked with the woman in her daughter's bed. If someone wants to make excuses they can imagine that he was only feeling or kissing her.

Is it okay if the pastor was only feeling and kissing a married parishioner?

Does pastor always mean "purported to be a moral leader / teacher" or just an ordinary (ie, sinful) human who encourages fellowship among believers?

Pastor is defined as spiritual leader who teaches and advises a congregation.

A pastor is someone who has spiritual care over a congregation

Therefore, a pastor is a shepherd of God’s flock who is to instruct, teach, and protect the people under his charge.  https://carm.org/dictionary-pastor

A pastor (UK: /ˈpɑ�stə/; US: /ˈpæstər/) is usually an ordained leader of a Christian congregation. When used as an ecclesiastical styling or title, the term may be abbreviated to "Pr" (singular) or "Ps" (plural). A pastor also gives advice and counsel to people from the community or congregation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pastor

a minister or priest in charge of a church. a person having spiritual care of a number of persons. http://www.dictionary.com/browse/pastor

That seems to go beyond 'encourages fellowship'

I mean, how much sin does it take before you condemn a pastor of crossing the line between forgiveness unforgiveness?

I do not pretend to know about any such 'line', BUT being caught naked with a parishioner (in the woman's daughter's bed) is WAY out of the 'forgiveness' zone -- for me anyway. Evidently, however, many are willing to forgive 'men of the cloth' for all sorts of sexual transgressions. Perhaps that is one of the benefits of the trade.

Do you keep this same attitude with your own circle friends, and family? Would you judge them the same? I accept it if you say you would...

It would make absolutely no difference in my reaction if the pastor had been one of several preachers who are in my 'circle of friends'.

but consider: within every judgement is the self righteousness of 'thank GOD I am not like that man' and within every forgiveness is the hidden thought, 'I'll forgive because I too am guilty.'

OR, 'I am not stupid enough to get caught in a situation like that'

AND, 'I would NOT expect to be forgiven if I was that stupid'.

[Youkilledkenny]

[Replying to post 1 by Zzyzx]

Morality superior or not, it's a good gig: Where else can you get paid to lie cheat steal AND commit adultery and then get applause because 'me so sorry'?
Even politicians don't get off that easily. I guess it pays to be a church leader.

I wonder if this would be the same result if it was a same-sex act of 'adultery'?

[postroad]

Have they not brought shame on Jesus and the Spirit? What would Paul have said?

1 Corinthians 5:10-13New International Version (NIV)

10 not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. 11 But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister[a] but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.

12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13 God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.�

John believed in sin beyond repentance for those who claimed to be believers. Would this qualify?

1 John 5:16-17New International Version (NIV)

16 If you see any brother or sister commit a sin that does not lead to death, you should pray and God will give them life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that you should pray about that. 17 All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death.

[Volbrigade]

[Replying to post 1 by Zzyzx]

Would you prefer that he NOT apologize, and ask forgiveness?

I think he showed courage in doing so. Perhaps the congregation was applauding that courage?

I may have missed it, in a cursory reading, but the article does not appear to say what, if any, actions would be taken regarding the Pastor. I would also be interested to know what sort of Pastor he is/was. The lead pastor? Associate pastor? It is not uncommon for a congregation to have a number of "pastors" -- especially in the Black community, where being in a church hierarchy is still a matter of prestige.

Clearly, this man has dishonored his family, his position, and the Kingdom of God.

It happens. Especially when it comes to that sex thang. As a friend of mine so eloquently put it: "it's a disease that's got to be managed." Handsome young pastor visits nubile, perhaps dissatisfied wife, in her home -- poor judgment. Or worse.

But to answer your question:

yes.

Forgiveness is wonderful. We are to forgive, as we have been forgiven.

We are to judge, but not condemn.

Still -- consequences for such poor judgement, and self-control, are appropriate.

He would no longer be a "pastor" at any church where I was a member. Or I would not be a member any longer.

[Tired of the Nonsense]

[Replying to Volbrigade]

What's funny -- in the ironic sense -- is that even if Christianity were not true, it is better to live your life according to its principles. If everyone acted like a Christian, we would need few jails.

http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 977#846977 Post #79

What's really funny is how the lofty brag about the elevated nature of Christianity invariably doesn't ever really seem to actually match up with real life. Apparently it is always a case of, "not as I do, but as I say I do. Because I am only a lowly sinner."



What do the statistics ACTUALLY tell us about the percentage of Christians in jail?

The Statistics Portal

https://www.statista.com/statistics/234 ... prisoners/

Christians, who make up about 70% of the US population, make up 66.3% of the prison populations. Statistically right on target.

And what percentage of prison populations do atheists make up?

AlterNet
While atheists make upward of 15 percent of the U.S. population, they only make up 0.2 percent of the prison population.
http://www.salon.com/2014/03/18/the_des ... e_partner/

The intensely religious religion of Islam, on the other hand, whose adherents only make up about 1% of the American population, make up a disproportionate 9.4% of the US prison population.

[Volbrigade]

[Replying to post 9 by Tired of the Nonsense]

There is no forgiveness in Islam.

And checking a box on a form doesn't make you a Christian.

Do you, a regular contributor on a "Debating Christianity" website, know how one becomes a Christian?

I it would be helpful, in forwarding this topic, to read your understanding in that regard.