William Getting On The Same Page With Divine Insight

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William Getting On The Same Page With Divine Insight

Post #1

Post by William »

Okay - the other thread derailed - or rather, went off on another line of argument...

So here's the deal.

Q: Would you like to be one the same page as me?

I would like to get on the same page with you. This thread is my expression of being proactive in regards to getting on the same page with you.
Divine Insight wrote:
William wrote: Do you have the list of these supposed 'false claims' you claim I have made?
Your MAIN CLAIM that I have contended that Christians are mindless slaves. I clearly never said that.
At first, yes, you did. After I made the initial noise about it, you explained yourself and I accepted that but didn't let you off the hook because I decided that you filling in the gaps after the fact was a poor move in relation to integrity. (Honesty)
Is it true the I view the Biblical Yahweh in the way I've described. Yes, absolutely! But what's wrong with that? Most Christians don't support Yahweh anyway. Most Christians follow Jesus not Yahweh. In fact, many Christians have the same problems with Yahweh as I do.
My opinion on that is this:

Biblical Yahweh is a story of a GOD from ancient times. The IDEA of GOD is allowed to evolve with the collective human psyche, but the old ideas have to be replaced with new ones in order for that to align. Without that alignment, humans may end up killing themselves and thus, GOD will die with them.

Biblical Yahweh is a GOD idea that hasn't evolved along with humanity but still exists as an ancient idea and most obviously has the most supporters. (Don't forget the Arabs.)

Thus Most Christians do indeed follow Yahwah, and so too, do most atheists, only of course the atheists don't like the idea of that which is why they are atheists.

Many Christians may indeed have the same Problem with Yahwah as you do, but my Divine Insight sees things differently.
I am not a Christian, but it could be said of me that I am, like you call yourself, and 'enlightened Christian'.

I will let YOU be the judge of that, and perhaps that is the starting point of our journey into the wilderness of the Same Page.
I even pointed out in this very thread that Jesus himself apparently did not care much for commandments that had been attributed to Yahweh. He obviously rebuked them himself.
That is because Yahwah commanded him to because of the way the commandments had been abused.

From Moses to Jesus, it became very clear that 10 wee commandments we far too many to be handing out to humans because of how they manipulated them into thousands of sub clauses for easy access into the realm of - I shall call it - "Legal Disobedience" and in that, society Went To The Devil.

The Devil is Yahweh's imaginary opponent. AS with all things imagined by Yahweh, they become very real.

Anyway, it was Jesus' task to bring in the shorter version of the commandments - and the point from Moses on the mount to the time of Jesus on another mount (or was it the same mount?) was used by the Yawehians as a time for planning and waiting for the right moment to implement those plans.
A lot of Christians have serious problems with the Old Testament narrative of Yahweh. That's why that would much rather focus on Jesus.
In my opinion, they focus more on Paul, who again, brought in many sub clauses to explain what Jesus apparently hadn't or couldn't or wouldn't explain, or whatever.

Very few Christians that I know of, follow after Jesus
How many Christians do you hear singing praise to Yahweh? :-k
Indirectly or directly?
They are far more likely to be singing praise to Jesus!
Indirectly then - Jesus was the softer evolving version of Yahweh, presented at a time when there was some hope of him catching on with the human imagination...and indeed, it appears to have done so...

Can you show me a Christian Song entitled "What a Friend We Have in Yahweh"?
Also, do you see Christians teaching their children to sing:

Yahweh loves me this I know, for the Bible tells me so.

Nope, they teach their children that Jesus loves them, not Yahweh.
Indirectly - Yahweh loves them through the effigy of Jesus. Before Jesus, Yahweh had no form...and it is just as well by all accounts...otherwise if Moses had looked at him, the tribes would not have got their instructions.

Jesus is the 'new improved' Yahweh now tolerable to the human eye and able to mingle without his presence causing people to drop dead of fright.
In fact, I claim that the vast majority of Christians don't like Yahweh at all. If you were to ask them to give up Jesus and become Jews who worship Yahweh they would say forget it. They would probably rather become atheists.
Good point. Historically Jews were even murdered by Christians, as if Jesus would ever condone such behavior from humans, let alone condone it being done in his name! Essentially such Christians would be regarded by Jesus and Yahweh, certainly as atheists, but even more so as diabolical.
After all, the rules had changed, or to be more correct, simplified to be understood as they were always intended to be understood...due largely to the conferencing of the Yahwehians in developing on their plans for humanity, and how to correct that path through tweaking by the hand(s) of God(s).
Take Jesus out of Christianity and most Christians would tell Yahweh to go jump in his lake of fire.


That sounds like you just said it was Yahweh's lake of fire. Isn't it Jesus' lake of fire?
They tend to not like Yahweh anymore than atheists do.
From what I have experienced, atheists don't even like Jesus. (or is that 'some atheists?'... I get confused)
So what is your point there?

Anyway, have a think about it and if you can see by your map if what I say helps you find "The Plateau of The Same Page" and if you are able to use your Compass of Divine Insight, (The Right Tool For The Job - It Is One Of Those Things) as intended, perhaps together we can get there?

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Post #11

Post by William »

[Replying to post 10 by Divine Insight]
Clearly you are "PREACHING" your personal religious views and basically expecting me to conform to the page you are on.
Whoa there!!

See what you did?

What are we? Politicians in session throwing insults?

Not me, my friend. If that is your idea of getting on the same page, you are mistaken.

Take a step back, think about it. Ask yourself; "Am I really interested in getting on the same page as William?" If so, try a different approach. If not...don't waste your time with insults, because that will never work.

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Post #12

Post by Divine Insight »

William wrote: Take a step back, think about it. Ask yourself; "Am I really interested in getting on the same page as William?" If so, try a different approach. If not...don't waste your time with insults, because that will never work.
Excuse me? Where did I ever even remotely suggest that I have any interest in getting on the same page with you? :-k

You are the one who has proclaimed a desire to get on the same page with me.
Also, why would you take my comment about you "preaching" as an "insult"?
Are you even aware that you are constantly making unverifiable claims about Jesus, Yahweh, GOD, and what you believe their intent and purpose is?
If that's not preaching I don't know what is.

Also, if you have any desire to actually come to any clarity on anything then respond to the following: (Otherwise I think it should be clear to all readers that you have absolutely no interest in making any sort of clear communication at all.)

So as far as I can see we are both on the "same page" in terms of understanding a potential philosophy of an FSC (First Source Consciousness).

Our only differences appear to be as follows:


1. You are convinced an FSC exists, I'm not.
2. You are convinced the FSC is described by Hebrew mythology. I am not.
3. If I were going to entertain an FSC I would choose Buddhism as the best explanation. You would not.


Aren't the above three points a correct description of where you and I stand on the concept of a potential FSC?

What could we do at this point to make anything more clear?


If you refuse to address the above, then you clearly aren't interested in clarifying anything. Much less getting on the same page with anyone.

Don't preach to me about Jesus, Yahweh, GOD, or what you think an imagined FSC has in store for humanity. Clearly those ideas can be nothing more than your own personal beliefs.

So if you want to make any progress in communication, then address the three points I enumerated in bold red above:

If you start claiming to know things about Jesus, Yahweh, or GOD, then you are indeed PREACHING.

No insult intended.
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Post #13

Post by William »

[Replying to post 12 by Divine Insight]
Excuse me? Where did I ever even remotely suggest that I have any interest in getting on the same page with you?
You never did and I never said you did. I even said this most recently;

I have seen by your replies that you appear not to be interested in giving that a go, so for now at least I have my answer.

Perhaps at another time we might revisit this, but - I am sure you will agree - there is no point taking this any further as it has run ts course.

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Post #14

Post by Divine Insight »

William wrote: [Replying to post 12 by Divine Insight]
Excuse me? Where did I ever even remotely suggest that I have any interest in getting on the same page with you?
You never did and I never said you did. I even said this most recently;

I have seen by your replies that you appear not to be interested in giving that a go, so for now at least I have my answer.

Perhaps at another time we might revisit this, but - I am sure you will agree - there is no point taking this any further as it has run ts course.
And what sense was any of that supposed to make? :-k

Why did you start a thread entitled, "William Getting On The Same Page With Divine Insight", when your actual motive was to try to get Divine Insight on the same page you are already on?

Plus, I even started a thread specifically for you so that you can actually describe the page you believe to be on:

Questions for William: What page are you on?

As far as I can see you aren't even willing to define the page you're on.

I've clearly defined the page I'm on, many times over.

If you want to get on the page I'm on, you're the one who needs to do that.

I have never expressed any interest in getting on your page. In fact, I have no clue what page you are even on. You refuse to even address those questions.

Your posts aren't even making any sense at all. One minute you are talking about a "Theory" of some FSC you have. The next minute you are proclaiming what God, Yahweh, and Jesus have in mind. And then you go off on a totally unrelated tangent proclaiming that you would like to get on the same page I'm on all the while refusing to even discuss what that even means in any coherent manner.

What exactly is your agenda here?

Can you explain that please?

I've already addressed every possible aspect of your FSC "theory".

What more do you want? :-k
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Post #15

Post by William »

[Replying to post 14 by Divine Insight]
As far as I can see you aren't even willing to define the page you're on.


I am continually defining the page I am on in posts that I contribute on this message board, and have been since day one and will continue to do so.

Why I created this thread had everything to do with seeing your propensity for injecting your beliefs into various threads and - specifically into a thread which wasn't asking you for your beliefs, and your continuing to do so even when it was pointed out to you more than once.

So, I decided that you had things you wanted to say and I wondered if anything you believed could dovetail with what I think and share on this forum, more often than not, in threads I create for that purpose (to share).

Thus (as I have explained a few times now)the creation of this thread and the invite to you specifically.

You have queried what is meant by 'getting on the same page', you have made some untruthful observations about me and my motives, (a charge you also make against me). You have created an unnecessary thread and placed questions to me there (when such could have been placed here) and you have generally given the impression that you do not want to bother trying to see if we can get on the same page.
I have never expressed any interest in getting on your page.
I have never said that you have.
What exactly is your agenda here?

Can you explain that please?
All I have really done is ask if you are willing to give it a go and see what might eventuate - see if indeed there is anything in our different views which can be reconciled together.

At present, it appears that no, there isn't. I am happy if that is the case. We can move on and let this thread sink.

What say you?







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Post #16

Post by Divine Insight »

William wrote: I am continually defining the page I am on in posts that I contribute on this message board, and have been since day one and will continue to do so.
I don't follow you around reading all your posts. Sorry if that's a disappointment for you. Also I have noticed that in some of your posts you make statements that I am certain you cannot know to be true, yet you include these whimiscal ideas as being at least part of "the page you are on".
William wrote: I tell you what I have learned to Trust in though.

Come hell or highwater and no matter the cost, GOD is going to get what GOD wants and in that, the remnant few who are able to survive this mess are going to be HIS vessel to that agenda.

There are other ways of achieving the same of course, but that requires being on the Same Page.


Me? I am just the imperfect messenger, but what of that?
Notice in your quote above you proclaim that there exists a God who is going to get HIS way, and that (in your own words) "the remnant few who are able to survive this mess are going to be HIS vessel to that agenda."

All of the above is PREACHING. It doesn't even matter whether you associate these ideas with any specific named God or religion. You are claiming that a God exists and that you know what his agenda is. That's preaching.

And then you say, "Me? I am just the imperfect messenger, but what of that?"

An imperfect messenger? How did you obtain that position? Did this God come to you and ask you to be his messenger? Are you claiming to have divine knowledge?

I already question deeply "the page you are on".

And I definitely have no interest in supporting your claims of divine knowledge. So that's never going to happen if that's what you are hoping to achieve in this thread by "William Getting on the Same Page with Divine Insight".
William wrote: Why I created this thread had everything to do with seeing your propensity for injecting your beliefs into various threads and - specifically into a thread which wasn't asking you for your beliefs, and your continuing to do so even when it was pointed out to you more than once.
Excuse me? You posted your "Theory of an FSC (First Source Consciousness)" that didn't even have a question in the Philosophy forum. That post was MOVED to Random Ramblings because it didn't even contain a question.

I replied to your "Theory" very politely in the very post #2 of that thread while it was still in Philosophy Forum before it was moved to Random Ramblings: And I started by saying the following:
Divine Insight wrote: Hi William, thank you for sharing your philosophical worldview so clearly and in succinct form. I too have a very similar world view modeled after various forms of Buddhism which basically hold much of the same concepts that you describe.
Then I went on to explain how Buddhism can also be thought of as a philosophy of an FSC and that the Buddhist have already worked out many of the details that you had not yet fleshed out. I was actually offering you a more refined example of an FSC.

You apparently took offense to that observation. I was trying to HELP you by offering other philosophies that have already dealt with the problems that you had not yet ironed out. Why you saw this as an attack against you is beyond me.
William wrote: So, I decided that you had things you wanted to say and I wondered if anything you believed could dovetail with what I think and share on this forum, more often than not, in threads I create for that purpose (to share).
Well, if you are interested in (sharing) then you should be grateful that I shared with you an alternative philosophy of an FSC that has already been fleshed out. :D
William wrote: Thus (as I have explained a few times now)the creation of this thread and the invite to you specifically.

You have queried what is meant by 'getting on the same page', you have made some untruthful observations about me and my motives, (a charge you also make against me). You have created an unnecessary thread and placed questions to me there (when such could have been placed here) and you have generally given the impression that you do not want to bother trying to see if we can get on the same page.
What would it mean to you for us to get on the "Same Page"?

At first you claim to have a "theory" of an FSC that you yourself confess you have not fully fleshed out.

I tried to address you on a philosophical level when you offered up your "theory".

THEN you claim to know what some God has in store for humanity and that you are some sort of "messenger" with respect to this God's agenda.

Now I have NO CLUE what "page" you might be on. But I'm quite certain I have no interest in getting on that page with you.
William wrote:
I have never expressed any interest in getting on your page.
I have never said that you have.
Exactly?

So what then is your agenda with THIS THREAD?

You clearly have no desire to get on the same page with me either. So what exactly is your point?
William wrote:
What exactly is your agenda here?

Can you explain that please?
All I have really done is ask if you are willing to give it a go and see what might eventuate - see if indeed there is anything in our different views which can be reconciled together.

At present, it appears that no, there isn't. I am happy if that is the case. We can move on and let this thread sink.

What say you?
I say that you should have never started this thread in the first place.

I most certainly have no desire to support your belief that you are the messenger for some God who's agenda you claim to somehow know.

If that's what you think it would mean for "William Getting on the Same Page with Divine Insight", you seem to have that backwards.

It seems to me far more like you expect me to support your beliefs and claims.

I've already explained the page I'm on, especially as it has to do with any philosophy of an FSC.

I see Buddhism as being the most consistent and well-fleshed-out "theory" or philosophy for a possible FSC. I do not find your Random Ramblings about an FSC to be impressive, and by your own admission you haven't even fleshed out all of the problems with your "theory"

And when you start PREACHING claims about what you believe some God's agenda is and that you are somehow his "messenger", I'm definitely not interested.

That's the PAGE I'm on. If you are interested in "William Getting on the Same Page with Divine Insight" then you need to get on the same page I'm on.

Otherwise, it seems to me that you have the title of this thread entirely backwards and it should have been: "William Trying to Get Divine Insight to Support the Page William is On."
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Post #17

Post by William »

[Replying to post 16 by Divine Insight]


All I have really done is ask if you are willing to give it a go and see what might eventuate - see if indeed there is anything in our different views which can be reconciled together.

At present, it appears that no, there isn't. I am happy if that is the case. We can move on and let this thread sink.

What say you?
I say that you should have never started this thread in the first place.

Okay. The answer has been found to the question. The thread can sink.

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Post #18

Post by Divine Insight »

William wrote: [Replying to post 16 by Divine Insight]


All I have really done is ask if you are willing to give it a go and see what might eventuate - see if indeed there is anything in our different views which can be reconciled together.

At present, it appears that no, there isn't. I am happy if that is the case. We can move on and let this thread sink.

What say you?
I say that you should have never started this thread in the first place.

Okay. The answer has been found to the question. The thread can sink.
When was there ever a question? :-k

I never had any desire in supporting your claim to be a messenger for some God who's agenda you claim to know.

Why you would have ever thought that I would loan my support to that is beyond me.

I nominate this thread to be moved to Random Ramblings, or better yet to oblivion.
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Post #19

Post by Zzyzx »

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Thread moved to Random Ramblings (just short of Trash Can). It is a purely personal matter.

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Post #20

Post by William »

Agreed - there was a lot of rambling -

:study:

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