How to reconcile deep-rooted skepticism and the wish to believe?

[Lemon]

[Edit - note to mods: I'm thinking maybe this post would fit better in the rambling section, feel free to move it there]

Having been raised into the teeny tiny French Hinduist community, I started my life with the default premise that there was a god. The belief in Karma, reincarnation and immutable morals were supposed to set my mind up for a dogma-led life. Yet, although I only have warm memories from this time, this is not how I turned out.

My parents completely turned away from religion when I was around 10, taking a more secular and philosophical approach to the Vedic teachings. As the brainy, curious and rational kid that I was, it wasn’t too hard for me to follow the current and drift away from the beliefs. In fact, my mom told me recently that one of the reasons why their faith weakened was that they often found themselves unable to answer my questions. I did grow into a bit of a rigid and skeptical know-it-all. In my defense, these traits were always presented by my peers as my biggest strength, and I became the face and heir of my family’s new approach to life: “question everything”.

But I found a way to take them by surprise. By the time I reached high school, the rock subculture I was into was led by excellent musicians, most of whom were young, cool, inspiring, and very Christian. Add to this: I had the chance of having as best friends the two sweetest, kindest, most loyal and most beautiful girls of the whole school, both very Christian. So you may understand why religion had found a new shine in my eyes. Soon, I started to study the Bible and attend church with my Protestant friend, and as you may imagine I did it the nerdy way and took it very seriously, for two years. I wanted to do the right thing and I thought that there way no way religion was such a big part of the human experience for no reason.

But I could not bring myself to believe, although I truly wanted to. Truly and sincerely, none of it made sense to me. I’m not going to list everything that had me doubt, but quite frankly if there was a God, why would He consider me as unworthy of saving because I couldn’t believe something on the simple basis of people saying “Oh, yeah, it’s true, trust me!!” Even if faith itself was something my mind could cling to, how do I know who to believe? Each year, every religion has bunches of people swearing on TV “My path is the right path, I saw God yesterday in a trance, He told me, trust me!!”

I couldn’t find a way to make it make sense. With both a new found frustration and fear of hell, I thought that the only thing that would free me from this puzzle would to throw it all away and simply live my life. On my way out, I promised to leave a window open for God, just in case. But the pendulum swing was stronger than expected. From exiting high school to current days, I went through 10 atheist years of fun and frustration. Despite being proud of my fidelity to reason, I felt anger every single time I thought about religion. I was completely dumbfounded that so many grown adults could not only believe in fairy tales, but also abide by them. I would start speaking to someone who seemed perfectly sane and somewhat intelligent, find out they were religious, and think “Why?? How do you do this?”. I never rage out of differences. I rage out of inability to understand a perspective.

That was until very recently. As I discovered in myself a new thirst for knowledge, my mind started to loosen up. By exploring psychology, philosophy and simply looking back on life, I realized that stone cold reason is only one half of being human. The other half is feeling, and is just as valid. One could use some of the famous arguments that give reasonable grounds for the existence of God, but there are ways to counter them all and in fact, it isn’t what believing is about. Just like you could list every practical reason that can justify marrying your significant other, but none of them are really what made you fall in love. You just did, period. I now understand that faith works on the same basis as falling in love.

Finally, I came to realize that Christians have something that I don't have: the ability to envision absolute good.

In a way, this is very powerful, and is the highest possible form of optimism. Maybe hell IS the lack of such optimism. It’s still very hard for me to believe. I feel like there is a voice in my head spelling out every cognitive bias that starts to lead me towards the “Maybe…” route. I wish I could just make this voice go away. I no longer want to be right. I no longer want to have every answer. Quite frankly, I just want to be happy. And this resistance feels bitter to me. Why is it still calling me? I now see believers with envy, instead of anger.

[TRANSPONDER]

A very honest letter. But the Rule here is ''pose a question for debate'. Can you formulate a question?

[Lemon]

[Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #2]
Ah, my bad...I edited the title.

[Difflugia]

Despite being proud of my fidelity to reason, I felt anger every single time I thought about religion. I was completely dumbfounded that so many grown adults could not only believe in fairy tales, but also abide by them. I would start speaking to someone who seemed perfectly sane and somewhat intelligent, find out they were religious, and think “Why?? How do you do this?”. I never rage out of differences. I rage out of inability to understand a perspective.

...

In a way, this is very powerful, and is the highest possible form of optimism. Maybe hell IS the lack of such optimism. It’s still very hard for me to believe. I feel like there is a voice in my head spelling out every cognitive bias that starts to lead me towards the “Maybe…” route. I wish I could just make this voice go away. I no longer want to be right. I no longer want to have every answer. Quite frankly, I just want to be happy. And this resistance feels bitter to me. Why is it still calling me? I now see believers with envy, instead of anger.

Figure out what it is you do believe in. People are real, feelings are real, and love is real, even if God isn't. Religion does lots of things for people. Among other things, it gives them a pre-built set of goals, a set of moral rules, a person that seems there when nobody else is, and the hope that death isn't final. Some of the things are useful, some are not, some are beneficial, and some are deceptive. Finding those things as an atheist is harder, but like baking something from scratch, you end up with a result that reflects what you're willing to put into it. At one time, I wanted what religion offered, but I realized that everything that religion has is at best a pale shadow of reality and at worst simply false: false history, false science, false morality, false friend, false father figure, false god. When you catch yourself feeling sad about one of these, think about what is real and think of a way to scratch whatever itch you're feeling (read Wikipedia or a book, call a friend, family member, interact with someone online, or buy a stranger ice cream depending on your comfort level). It gets easier the more you do it.

I try to make as many people as happy as possible, myself included. I'm disappointed in myself when I miss an opportunity to help someone. I spent a few years worrying about God and Hell. It was difficult at the time, but over sooner than I expected and forgotten not much later. Human beings are far from all good, but not all bad and we're all in the same boat.

[TRANSPONDER]

It's a change of mindset when you realise that looking at all the evidence and trying to decide is better than choosing a thing to believe and then selecting the evidence to fit. The wish to believe becomes a wish to believe 'as many true things as possible' as Matt Dillanunty says. The desire to believe can become a desire to understand.

It's something the Believing side don't get about rational skepticism. They seem to see it as a Belief that has been picked and the evidence is selected to fit. They don't get it that seeing it rationally (even if it means saying "I don't know..yet") is as satisfying and a lot less prone to being misled than trying to justify already -held beliefs.

[Lemon]

At one time, I wanted what religion offered, but I realized that everything that religion has is at best a pale shadow of reality and at worst simply false: false history, false science, false morality, false friend, false father figure, false god.

Funny how for us it is definitely what it feels like deep down without trying, and for the other half of people, the exact opposite is true. The physical world is a pale shadow of the spiritual world and God is an absolute for everything : realest friend, realest father, realest morality, etc. Maybe I just have a complex/fascination with the other side of the mirror.
I like your advice and I will think about it. This very thing has always been challenging for me as my sense of core identity (therefore beliefs alltogether) tends to be very fluid. Once, someone asked me to list three of my main values, and the verbal section of my brain went completely blank for a solid five minutes. And I don't usually struggle at all to find words to talk about myself, as you can see by my post.

It's a change of mindset when you realise that looking at all the evidence and trying to decide is better than choosing a thing to believe and then selecting the evidence to fit. The wish to believe becomes a wish to believe 'as many true things as possible' as Matt Dillanunty says. The desire to believe can become a desire to understand.

It's something the Believing side don't get about rational skepticism. They seem to see it as a Belief that has been picked and the evidence is selected to fit. They don't get it that seeing it rationally (even if it means saying "I don't know..yet") is as satisfying and a lot less prone to being misled than trying to justify already -held beliefs.

I used to be so obsessed about finding true things. I used to think it was possible to find abolute evidence for everything and it was my very main thing. Now I am not even sure if there is such a thing as a true thing. Reality is so complex that at some point you have to pick something and roll with it. After all, trusting a body of science without understanding it yoursalf is also a form of belief (you would've never heard me say that a couple years ago..but here we are). Though, I became better at finding out how everything connects, balances out and completes one another. This is how I redifined "understanding", and it feels much more rewarding.

However I think there is such a thing as biased skepticism. There would be, after all, many upsides to religions being made up. No need to question every single thing you do. No risk to burn in hell if you mess up (anihilation is much less scary if you ask me...I mean I don't know about you, but I already went through an eternity of not existing before being born. It can't be that bad, can it?)

[TRANSPONDER]

At one time, I wanted what religion offered, but I realized that everything that religion has is at best a pale shadow of reality and at worst simply false: false history, false science, false morality, false friend, false father figure, false god.

Funny how for us it is definitely what it feels like deep down without trying, and for the other half of people, the exact opposite is true. The physical world is a pale shadow of the spiritual world and God is an absolute for everything : realest friend, realest father, realest morality, etc. Maybe I just have a complex/fascination with the other side of the mirror.
I like your advice and I will think about it. This very thing has always been challenging for me as my sense of core identity (therefore beliefs alltogether) tends to be very fluid. Once, someone asked me to list three of my main values, and the verbal section of my brain went completely blank for a solid five minutes. And I don't usually struggle at all to find words to talk about myself, as you can see by my post.

It's a change of mindset when you realise that looking at all the evidence and trying to decide is better than choosing a thing to believe and then selecting the evidence to fit. The wish to believe becomes a wish to believe 'as many true things as possible' as Matt Dillanunty says. The desire to believe can become a desire to understand.

It's something the Believing side don't get about rational skepticism. They seem to see it as a Belief that has been picked and the evidence is selected to fit. They don't get it that seeing it rationally (even if it means saying "I don't know..yet") is as satisfying and a lot less prone to being misled than trying to justify already -held beliefs.

I used to be so obsessed about finding true things. I used to think it was possible to find abolute evidence for everything and it was my very main thing. Now I am not even sure if there is such a thing as a true thing. Reality is so complex that at some point you have to pick something and roll with it. After all, trusting a body of science without understanding it yoursalf is also a form of belief (you would've never heard me say that a couple years ago..but here we are). Though, I became better at finding out how everything connects, balances out and completes one another. This is how I redifined "understanding", and it feels much more rewarding.

However I think there is such a thing as biased skepticism. There would be, after all, many upsides to religions being made up. No need to question every single thing you do. No risk to burn in hell if you mess up (anihilation is much less scary if you ask me...I mean I don't know about you, but I already went through an eternity of not existing before being born. It can't be that bad, can it?)

I agree about Not Existing. Existing eternally even in a custom - made person paradise For Ever strikes me as a lot more appalling and yet people seem to just hope Never to Die without thinking of the implications.

And that leads onto instinctive thinking and how we can mistake it for universal truths. But rather than go down that rat-hole or garden path I'll pick up your other point about Epistemology.

Or the Theist apologetic of 'How do we know what we know?' The thing is, we can't all do our own research. We do rely on others to research for us, and even collate the expertise and teach it to us. I know all about the reservations, but we have to trust the science textbooks if only because we can't trust the others. They have research, verification and peer review, and that has to beat personal preference and evidence selection any time. The peddlars of pebbledust know this and they have to try to ensure that nobody gets to hear the other side, which leads to cultishness, control (or at least, spamming) of Media and organised disinformation.

I'd be happy to look at the points about 'biased skepticism'. I have frequently done so. But even recognising the valid criticism, Science (It has to be said) is not only the best but the only reliable source of information as distinct from those pushing an agenda. The difference between Belief (with valid reason) and faith (without good reason and even despite the good reasons against) need hardly be laboured, and yet is persistently ignored and denied. Why? Because the nature of faith is to pick a belief and fight for it with anything and everything. Logical fallacy in particular, as Faith is a logical fallacy to start with.

Which is what the believers cast doubt on epistemology. Science can't be relied upon and neither can logic. But even if that was so, that wouldn't make a case for Faith.It would merely mean that we have no reason to believe anything. It is certainly never argued that we should believe everything. Only one particular thing that they like. We don't need a book of Philosophy to tell us what's wrong there.

[1213]

...
Finally, I came to realize that Christians have something that I don't have: the ability to envision absolute good.

In a way, this is very powerful, and is the highest possible form of optimism. Maybe hell IS the lack of such optimism. It’s still very hard for me to believe. I feel like there is a voice in my head spelling out every cognitive bias that starts to lead me towards the “Maybe…” route. I wish I could just make this voice go away. I no longer want to be right. I no longer want to have every answer. Quite frankly, I just want to be happy. And this resistance feels bitter to me. Why is it still calling me? I now see believers with envy, instead of anger.

So, you want to believe because you want the absolute good?

Is that bad reason to want to believe?

Does it really matter do you believe it or not?

[TRANSPONDER]

I know that many have said 'I wished I believed....I just don't'. I don't wish that. I don't think these people have thought it through. I know about the attractive idea of cozy Faith that it's all going to be fine. To me it's like someone saying 'I wished I could just let Jesus take the wheel instead of having to take driving - lessons.' Nobody lives like that. Nobody Wants to live like that.

Neither do I envy those who think: 'Jesus' got this. Don't need to worry about anything. Even if someone presses the Button, I'm saved'. It's long been a choice I made 'Hard truths or comfortable lies'. I'm not even going to consider the anger and frustration of the Faithful when things don't go the way they like, and anything and everything is justified in pushing back.

Wanting to believe as many true things as possible rather than let myself be brainwashed into a Faith and have to do the mental back flips that I see in trying to maintain an irrational belief is far more attractive, stimulating and worthwhile than the lazy, delusionary and often downright harmful opting for one particular Faith -belief and having to battle against all the others is a no brainer for me. or, rather it WAS a Brainer, but thanks to rationalism (of which atheism is a subset), critical thinking and listening to some deep debates has helped me out of wishing I'd joined a cult and told myself that I had the Keys to Heaven when all I had was a fistful of Confederate dollars.

[1213]

I know that many have said 'I wished I believed....I just don't'. I don't wish that. I don't think these people have thought it through. I know about the attractive idea of cozy Faith that it's all going to be fine. To me it's like someone saying 'I wished I could just let Jesus take the wheel instead of having to take driving - lessons.' Nobody lives like that. ...

I would hope that Christians would understand that belief is not the key thing, righteousness is, because they will get the eternal life as a gift.

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23