Natural Res Theories: three classes

[liamconnor]

As I reflected on the various possible natural explanations for the cause/s behind the first christian proclamation, it occurred to me that they all fall into one or more of the following classes: Psychological; Physiological; Pathological.

Psychological explanations would include any conspiracy.

Physiological would include anything dealing directly with Jesus' body: did he survive the crucifixion? Was his body moved from a tomb?

Pathological would include hallucination or religious hysteria or any mental disorder.


Are there any other classes I have missed, or can we know, by intuition that all variants will fall into one or more of these three P's?

[Divine Insight]

As I reflected on the various possible natural explanations for the cause/s behind the first christian proclamation, it occurred to me that they all fall into one or more of the following classes: Psychological; Physiological; Pathological.

Psychological explanations would include any conspiracy.

Physiological would include anything dealing directly with Jesus' body: did he survive the crucifixion? Was his body moved from a tomb?

Pathological would include hallucination or religious hysteria or any mental disorder.


Are there any other classes I have missed, or can we know, by intuition that all variants will fall into one or more of these three P's?

I would also include the possibility of a naturally evolving superstitious rumor. I don't see where this would need to fall into any of the categories you have listed. A naturally evolving rumor would not require any conspiracy other than possibly the agreement between people who are collectively believing in the superstitious rumors.

In this case there also wouldn't need to have been any empty tomb or supposed resurrection. All that would be required is that rumors of these things arose.

Another possibility is that it started as a rumor as I have described above, and then later as this rumor became popular it was then purposefully exploited for political purposes. In fact, that's the scenario I personally favor and that many scholars have suggested.

Yet another possibility is that the entire collection of Gospels were actually fabricated specifically to create this religion. I personally rejected this notion as I have a hard time believing that people would accept a totally fabricated story that didn't at least have some sort of popular common rumors associated with it beforehand. However, people have pointed out to me that this could have been the source of Islam and the stories of Muhammad might have been totally fabricated from scratch. If that's the case, then Islam shows that people will buy into totally fabricated stories. And if it's not the case, then we would need to explain how the rumors of Muhammad got started.

So Christianity is basically in the same boat with most other religions.

Who started the fables of Greek Mythology? Who started the fables of Thor? Etc.

Who started the story of the Buddha?

Who started the story of the Moon Goddess and the Sun God?

Who started the story of the Egyptian Gods?

You see, these questions can be asked of any and all religions.

Who started the story of the Mayan God? The God of the Incas? The God of the American Indians?

My guess is that all these religions had the same sort of origins: Superstitious rumors.

But that's not even on your list.

Why is this not on your list of possible explanations?

So my guess for Christianity is that it started as a rumor and then was clearly later exploited for political reasons as a full-blown religion. And history supports this because the early Christians were going around burning down Pagan temples and threatening to harm or kill anyone who refused to accept the Christian doctrine, or who dared to challenge it.

Why in the world would that situation have ever come to be if there wasn't political motivation behind this religion? Can you explain that?

Why would armies threaten to kill people if they refused to accept this religion or challenged it's authority?

Early Christianity was clearly a political movement. And that implies political conspiracy.

[liamconnor]

[Replying to post 2 by Divine Insight]

I would also include the possibility of a naturally evolving superstitious rumor.

It is easy to think in vague terms like "naturally evolving supersitious rumor" because you don't have to imagine it. Close your eyes and imagine a rumor 'naturally evolving'.

It will be impossible, unless you start with a concrete person, who starts a concrete story, whose recipients continue and add to the story. That is how history works. Rumors don't start; people start rumors.


That brings us to the psychological category: everyone from the originator to the hundredth contributor had a pyschological reason for continuing the story, and adding to it. Somehow this rumor produced the entire N.t. literature as well as later literature.

Yet another possibility is that the entire collection of Gospels were actually fabricated specifically to create this religion. I personally rejected this notion as I have a hard time believing that people would accept a totally fabricated story that didn't at least have some sort of popular common rumors associated with it beforehand. However, people have pointed out to me that this could have been the source of Islam and the stories of Muhammad might have been totally fabricated from scratch.

Possible and plausible, let alone probable, are quite different. Clearly Muhammad did not start things from scratch, for he used tradition from the bible.

So Christianity is basically in the same boat with most other religions.

Not even remotely. Christianity provides 'names' which provide 'dates'. It should be noted that Muhammad is THE prophet, the SINGLE eyewitness testimony of his religion.

So even the data is different.

Who started the fables of Greek Mythology? Who started the fables of Thor? Etc.

Give me some plausible options derived from extant literature and I will see if there is enough to go on.

In the meantime, I give you explicit names: Peter, Paul, James, John.

Thus, we can get to historical work, with the question, do the documents suggest that any of these fabricated?

[Divine Insight]

[Replying to post 2 by Divine Insight]

I would also include the possibility of a naturally evolving superstitious rumor.

It is easy to think in vague terms like "naturally evolving supersitious rumor" because you don't have to imagine it. Close your eyes and imagine a rumor 'naturally evolving'.

It will be impossible, unless you start with a concrete person, who starts a concrete story, whose recipients continue and add to the story. That is how history works. Rumors don't start; people start rumors.

No kidding. I have no clue what you think I meant. Of course the rumors were started by people. I have observed rumors being started by people and evolve right before my very eyes. So I have eyewitness experience of seeing this work in the real world.

In the meantime, I give you explicit names: Peter, Paul, James, John.

This doesn't mean anything at all since we can't even be sure that those names themselves aren't total fabrications. It's not like you actually know who these people are. Names are meaningless if you can't verify the people they supposedly label.

All you have to go by are totally undependable rumors from over 2000 years ago. That's hardly impressive. Sorry, but your arguments simply aren't compelling.

Also, if you aren't going to back up the notion that every word they wrote is the "Gospel Truth" then you don't even have dependable authors. You'd need to be a hardcore fundamentalist who supports every jot and tittle of the Gospels.

If you allow that the Gospels contain any questionable material at all then your entire claim to having any reliable information fails.

So you're stuck with all or nothing whether you like it or not.

[The Nice Centurion]

As I reflected on the various possible natural explanations for the cause/s behind the first christian proclamation, it occurred to me that they all fall into one or more of the following classes: Psychological; Physiological; Pathological.

Psychological explanations would include any conspiracy.

Physiological would include anything dealing directly with Jesus' body: did he survive the crucifixion? Was his body moved from a tomb?

Pathological would include hallucination or religious hysteria or any mental disorder.


Are there any other classes I have missed, or can we know, by intuition that all variants will fall into one or more of these three P's?

One possibility not necessarily from any of your classes would be a false Jesus.
History knows a false Nero and a false Joan d' Arc, which appeared after the real deals deceased.

A false Jesus could have worked alone, without conspiracy needed. Also there is the possibility of person or persons misinterpreted to be Jesus catching on..
FOR IT IS MORE THAN SUSPICIOUS THAT EVEN IN GOSPEL NARRATIVES JESUS IS RATHER NOT RECOGNICED AT ONCE, BUT HAS TO RUB HIS FRIENDS NOSES INTO WHO HE IS.