Jesus could not have been fully human?

[postroad]

Paul makes this claim that Jesus preexisted time. There are claims that he did not have a human father. How could he be fully human as some Christians claim.

2 Timothy 1:9
He has saved us and called us to a holy life—not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time,

Luke 3:23New International Version (NIV)

23 Now Jesus himself was about thirty years old when he began his ministry. He was the son, so it was thought, of Joseph,

the son of Heli,


John 17:5
And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

Hebrews 1:2-4New International Version (NIV)

2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe. 3 The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. 4 So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs.

John 1:1
[ The Word Became Flesh ] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

If Jesus is the exact representation of God's being and the cause and sustainer of creation,how can he not be divine?

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 70 by Monta]

The problem I find with yr posts is that you give it shrthand and i have to guess where yu are at.

Sorry about that. Will aim for more clarity in future.

You used the terms put aside and laid aside, right?

I used "laid aside" only; you used "put aside" in your analogy.

Yes i know about Logos too.

So, what do you think "the Logos became flesh" tells us about Jesus on earth?

Did he then have two natures, human and divine, or human only?

[William]

[Replying to post 62 by William]

Are you putting aside that the Bible is the single unified word of God?

Correct. That is undoubtedly what my post (and link with post) is stating.

[dio9]

[Replying to post 67 by Checkpoint]

'I was simply using the terms Paul used, putting them together to illustrate that separation did occur between the divine and human when the Word became flesh, according to Philippians 2."

The point of religion as I see it , is to reconnect with the divine. This means restore an un-separated relationship between spirit and flesh.
There is only one spirit, there was /is no separation. Separation is the delusion religions seek to correct. Jesus was all about the genuineness of the relationship of God and Man.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 59 by Checkpoint]



"The Word became what it was not, flesh.

Paul, using the terms "form of God" and "equality with God", then says that was "emptied" or laid aside, and not clung onto, to become or be found in, the "form of man"."

Sorry don't folow that could you rephrase it.

Many versions do not say that Jesus had "equality with God." In fact, those many versions say that Jesus wouldn't even consider being equal to God.

NAB
NASB
NIV
21st Century N.T.
REB
Moffatt

etc.

[onewithhim]

When it comes to contradictions and the ensuring looped arguments (as is evident in this thread - and many others) I employ the rule of "If it contradicts what Jesus is proported to have said, put it aside"

That way at least, I have some foundation to work from.

If one continues to think of the bible as 'the word of god' rather than Jesus, then one will continue to be stuck with the hopeless task of 'explaining' contradiction so that it is not contradiction any longer.

This of course has proved to be the problem - the stumbling block - the reason a kingdom is divided and the curse of Christendom.

In that, it works against GOD - in opposition to GOD.

See?

If Jesus said one thing and Paul contradicts that, then rather than try and dovetail Paul with Jesus, reject Paul in favor of Jesus.

Work WITH GOD.

That is how I see the solution to contradiction.

[Link]

I agree.....if it contradicts Jesus, reject it.

Jesus said, "I can't do anything on my own, but only what I learn from the Father, and only through what power and authority He GIVES me." (John 5:19; Matthew 28:18)

Therefore, anything else is spurious, such as the horrendous rendering of John 8:58 and even John 1:1. To check the original languages would be helpful. Otherwise, a lot of research is indicated....and reading various Bible scholars, such as BeDuhn, and his excellent book Truth in Translation.

[Monta]

[Replying to post 62 by William]


"This of course has proved to be the problem - the stumbling block - the reason a kingdom is divided and the curse of Christendom. "

Stumbling block maybe, but a curse?

Who's cursed Christianity?

[William]

[Replying to post 62 by William]


"This of course has proved to be the problem - the stumbling block - the reason a kingdom is divided and the curse of Christendom. "

Stumbling block maybe, but a curse?

Who's cursed Christianity?

Christendom.

[Pierac]

Concerning the other verse---did you ever hear the phrase: "Like father, like son"? Jesus himself said that he copied the Father in whatever He did. He was so like his Father that we could say we saw his Father in him.

John 5:19

This verse?
Act 2:22 "Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know--

You do understand what's being taught here???


Paul

[onewithhim]

Concerning the other verse---did you ever hear the phrase: "Like father, like son"? Jesus himself said that he copied the Father in whatever He did. He was so like his Father that we could say we saw his Father in him.

John 5:19

This verse?
Act 2:22 "Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know--

You do understand what's being taught here???


Paul

Yes, absolutely. Just what I have said. Jesus was God's Son, SENT from above BY the Father (God), so he was divine (from the spirit realm) AND he was totally HUMAN. He was given powers BY THE FATHER to do great miracles. "God performed THROUGH him," as you quoted. If Jehovah hadn't GIVEN Jesus power, Jesus would not have been able to do anything, as he himself said. (John 5:19)

.

[Monta]

[Replying to post 62 by William]


"This of course has proved to be the problem - the stumbling block - the reason a kingdom is divided and the curse of Christendom. "

Stumbling block maybe, but a curse?

Who's cursed Christianity?

Christendom.

Idiotic.
God cursed Israel (or is it Jews) in OT and only for the bad things they had done.
He has done no such a thing in NT.
I am a Christian and neither myself or my religion has been cursed.