Are denominations beneficial?

[Peds nurse]

Colossians 3:15-"Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, since as members of one body you were called to peace."

Do all the different denominations help or hinder this verse?

[Peds nurse]

[Replying to post 50 by JehovahsWitness]

It is inspiring...I didn't mean to make it sound like a disability is a reason to not serve, but not everyone serves in the same manner. If God gives us all talents, then wouldn't it be wise to use them? Not everyone can be a hand, we need feet and arms in the body too, and all are important.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 44 by JehovahsWitness]

That would be a start.

No, it would be the end of any meaningful exchange.

Our way or the highway is not a viable option.

Well truth cannot be compromised! After all if we just put giving up believing in Jesus on the table we could have global unity with Hindus! What about being willing to become atheists, then we could have global harmony of belief? Do you see where that would lead? Jesus could have been more accomodating with the Pharisees by just stoppiing condemning them but he didn't, why do you think that is?

The traditional churches are in free fall, even their own flock is leaving them and they certainly have nothing to offer atheists. Even non-denominational Christians want nothing to do with them, why should JWs adopt their ways when our numbers are growing? Hundreds of thousands of people become become Jehovah's Witnesses each year, we can hardly cope with our increase, what would you like, we punch a whole in our roof so our house can become as decripid and as unappealing as the churches people are turning away from in droves? Or what can people that don't even go to church or believe any church reprents the true faith, have to teach those of us that know better?

Jesus sent his people to help the spiritually hungry and save them from spiritual darkness. It is not for those in the dark to dictate what light looks like. Nor for those with no faith at all (or not enough faith to be able to effectively answer bible questions with scripture because they believe scripture doctrine to be of little consequence) to attempt to dictate how those of us with faith should behave. They have but to read the list and see what they can do about conforming, before its too late.




JW

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 52 by JehovahsWitness]


Checkpoint wrote:

[Replying to post 44 by JehovahsWitness]

Quote:
That would be a start.


No, it would be the end of any meaningful exchange.

Our way or the highway is not a viable option.

Well truth cannot be compromised!

Yes, but who gets to define "truth"?

How is "truth" revealed? By

A religious organization such as the Roman Catholic Church through its Pope?

The Watchtower Society through its leadership?

The LDS through its prophet or its books?

Luther or Calvin?

Jesus himself is the truth, and the Holy Spirit leads into truth.

Jesus sent his people to help the spiritually hungry and save them from spiritual darkness. It is not for those in the dark to dictate what light looks like.

Ah yes, light and darkness.

Jesus had some very pertinent things to say about such things.

It's all there in Luke 11:

34 Your eye is the lamp of your body. When your eyes are healthy, your whole body also is full of light. But when they are unhealthy, your body also is full of darkness.
35 See to it, then, that the light within you is not darkness.

They have but to read the list and see what they can do about conforming, before its too late.

As I said to you before, "Our way or the highway is not a viable option".

We are not here "to dictate" what is truth or what is light or darkness.

[tam]

Colossians 3:15-"Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, since as members of one body you were called to peace."

Do all the different denominations help or hinder this verse?

Peace to you Peds!


Do you mean to ask if different denominations help or hinder people from being members of one body?


Since the Body that we are called to be part of is the Body of Christ, then being part of something else is certainly going to hinder being part of Him. One cannot serve two masters. Either he will "hate the one and love the other, or be devoted to one and despise the other."




Roman Catholics will defend the RCC and 'her' teachings even at the expense of (by watering down, justifying, explaining away, etc) the word and deeds of Christ. JW's will do the same. Evangelicals will do the same with the teachings that are common among evangelicals. Those are the three that I have any experience with, just from speaking with them. Their religion (denomination) and its doctrines will be defended even at the expense of Christ. Not only will the teachings be defended at the expense of Christ, but they will also obey the religion over Christ. They will not see that they are doing such at the expense of the word and commands of Christ - they won't see it in themselves at least, though they may see it in others - but that is what they are doing.



Yet my Lord has said (and it truly is this simple),

Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them."





HE is the One who has the words of eternal life. HE is the Truth. HE is the Word of God.



May those who wish them be given ears to hear, and may any who seek and any who thirst, "Come! Take the free gift of the water of Life!"


(which water is holy spirit, poured out by Christ, the Life)




Peace to you and to your loved ones,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[OnceConvinced]

Don't you believe that it's as Paul said and that a true Christian is identified by the fruits of the holy spirit? If so should doctrinal issues be considered the thing that determines the true Christians from the false Christians? What denomination you are part of should surely be irrelevant?

Should doctrinal issues be considered the thing that determines the true Christians from the false Christians?

It is certainly a key determiner. After all, if doctrine* is irrelevant,

I never said doctrine was irrelevent. I said that what denomination you are in is irrelevant. There are certainly parts of the bible that dictate very important factors in ones salvation. However the fact remains that Paul quite clearly states we can tell the true Christians by the fruits they exhibit in their life. He does not say anything about whether your beliefs are right or not.

He also talks about faith and how that is more important that works.

He continually talks about God's grace, which should be sufficient for anyone even those who get a few doctrinal issues wrong.

Where is God's grace when it comes to your view on how crucial doctrine is?

No! When Jesus was on earth, he indicated that his followers would be organized into an identifiable group.

Since when were the Jehovah's Witnesses identified as that group? On the contrary they are not identified as Jesus's organised group except by JWs themselves. Even most other Christian denominations see them as a cult.

No, the JW's certainly can't claim to be identified as God's special group because they certainly are not. They are seen as a fringe group by most.

What part should LOVE play in identifying the true religion?

Having established that Jesus started a religion, Jesus said "By this all will know you are my disciples if you have love amongst yourselves".

No, it says "you have love for one another". It goes hand in hand with blessing ones enemies.

It's not talking about some little exclusive group.

This group would, according to Jesus' own words be identifiable by this most important fruit of the spirit, LOVE.

I don't see how anyone can be exhibiting the fruit of love by branding all those outside their little exclusive group as false Christians and/or evil.

Don't you believe that it's as Paul said and that a true Christian is identified by the fruits of the holy spirit?

Of course non of the above exempts a Christian from his obligation to show love on a personal level and live their faith by manifesting the fruit of the spirit in all they do as inidividual but it is absolutely false it imply that doing so is all that is required or that just being a loving person, but not being associated with any "denomination" is following Christ.

Paul never talked about building an exclusive groups. He spoke of the fruits as showing proof that you are a true Christian and that that is how EVERYBODY can identify the true Christians. If you aren't showing these fruits, then your claims are worthless, whether you are a JW or not.

In view of the above, it is clear that Jesus did not want his followers split into thousands of different "denominations".

Yet some Christian groups continue to reject all the others, thus encouraging different denominations. Perhaps if all Christians joined together as Jesus wanted, instead of forming exclusive factions, then Jesus's desires would become reality.

But this is not synonymous don't have a religion at all, just be loving to all and tell people you are Christian over the internet.

That is why we have the fruits of the holy spirit. We have those to identify who the true Christians are. Rejecting other denominations other than ones own is not showing the majority of the fruits as I pointed out earlier. It does the opposite. If you are not showing the majority of the fruits, then any claims you have of being a true Christian are worthless. By rejecting all other denominations of Christians you are actually showing us that you are not a true Christian at all, without any doubt whatsoever.

Jesus didn't go around rejecting all other factions. He sat down with those other factions. He put them straight where they needed to be. He welcomed everyone to him, just as long as they came as children.

Jesus' words indicate that he wanted his followers to be a an identifiable group in an organized religion marked by love, united in doctrine and zealously doing the work he had commissioned them to do until the end of the system of things, namely that of teaching true doctrine and baptizing those that are receptive into the religion he had established.

So far Jesus has clearly failed at achieving that because there is no Christian group publically identified as the true Christians. Not even the Jehovah's Witnesses.

[OnceConvinced]

[Replying to post 50 by JehovahsWitness]

but not everyone serves in the same manner. If God gives us all talents, then wouldn't it be wise to use them? Not everyone can be a hand, we need feet and arms in the body too, and all are important.

Exactly, if God meant for all of us to go door to door preaching to people, then he would made us all with the same personality types. Some personalities, such as sanguine personalities would have no problem with this. More introverted types like phlegmatic and melancholy personalities would not be able to do that. It would go against the way they were created.

If any god expected all humans to be able to knock on people's doors and be able to preach to strangers, then he clearly doesn't understand the differences in the people he supposedly created.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 54 by tam]

Roman Catholics will defend the RCC and 'her' teachings even at the expense of (by watering down, justifying, explaining away, etc) the word and deeds of Christ. JW's will do the same. Evangelicals will do the same with the teachings that are common among evangelicals. Those are the three that I have any experience with, just from speaking with them. Their religion (denomination) and its doctrines will be defended even at the expense of Christ. Not only will the teachings be defended at the expense of Christ, but they will also obey the religion over Christ. They will not see that they are doing such at the expense of the word and commands of Christ - they won't see it in themselves at least, though they may see it in others - but that is what they are doing.

Are you thereby saying that all such are not members of the Body of Christ and therefore not saved?

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 53 by Checkpoint]




[center]
Defining "truth".[/center]

Well truth cannot be compromised!

Yes, but who gets to define "truth"?

How is "truth" revealed? By

A religious organization such as the Roman Catholic Church through its Pope?

The Watchtower Society through its leadership?

The LDS through its prophet or its books?

Luther or Calvin?

Jesus himself is the truth, and the Holy Spirit leads into truth.

That's a very good point.
It's odd to an outsider, though.

You say that we should not allow others to decide what is "truth", and then you seem to imply that you are the one who should.

Isn't what you are telling us about Jesus and the Holy Spirit your version of what the "truth" is?

Do YOU get to define the "truth"?

[JehovahsWitness]

Since when were the Jehovah's Witnesses identified as that group?

Since the spring of 1919.

they are not identified as Jesus's organised group except by JWs themselves.

And by Jehovah God who is the only one that really counts in this matter.

No, the JW's certainly can't claim to be identified as God's special group

We I we do, so obviously we can.

they certainly are not.

They certainly are!

They are seen as a fringe group by most.

And Jesus was seen as a criminal, did you have a point that doesn't amount to argumentum ad populum?

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 59 by JehovahsWitness]



[center]
Let's engage in some REALLY deep thinking for a change:[/center]

And by Jehovah God who is the only one that really counts in this matter.

So, whatever the JW say, it doesn't count.
I agree.

they certainly are not.

They certainly are!

I say certainly not.
Your move.