Are denominations beneficial?

[Peds nurse]

Colossians 3:15-"Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, since as members of one body you were called to peace."

Do all the different denominations help or hinder this verse?

[OnceConvinced]

There is no fallacy here. The fact is that the majority of Christians reject the JW church.

** The majority of people refused to join Noah in the ark, the majority were wrong.

The were not fellow believers.

** Jehovah promised Abraham if he found even ten righteous men in Sodom and Gomorrah he would spare the whole place, evidently he did not find the majority in those towns.

Are you saying that all other Christians apart from Jehovah's Witnesses are not righteous? That they are no different to the evil people who lived in Sodom and Gormorrah?

** The majority of Egyptians took no heed of God's warnings through Moses, the majority where wrong again .

Were the Egyptians fellow Jews?

** According to the bible, the majority of Jews rejected Jesus as the Messiah, the majority were wrong.

The Jews were not followers of Jesus were they? Christians are. So one would think other Christians would have some idea about who the true Christians would be. You would not expect the Jews to be an authority on who the true Christians would be. However if there was a small group of people called the Jews Witnesses, then the Jews would be in a better position to be able to judge.

** Jesus indicated that the majority of people would be on the road to destruction and only a few (the minority) would be on the road to life.

Are you saying that all Christians that aren't part of the JW church are on the way to destruction?

If being in the majority has any bearing whatsoever on religious truth, evidently God didn't get the memo.

Note when I talk about that majority who are against the JW church I am talking about CHRISTIANS! Not Jews, not people of other religions. Not atheists or agnostics. CHRISTIANS! Surely the majority of Christians should be able to determine who the true Christians are? Surely if they reject the JWs, then we should look at the JW church dubiously ourselves?

I notice that all you are doing is going on about this one point I made. That the majority of Christians shun the JW church. You have completely ignored the other points I have made including the scriptures that quite clearly state that wisdom is recognised by the majority and that TRUE Christians are evident by the fruits of the holy spirit they exhibit. By rejecting all other Christians you show these fruits to not be evident.

Also once again I see that you absolutely refuse to try to back up your claim that the JW church is God's chosen group. Others will notice this dishonourable tactic too.

[OnceConvinced]

If being in the majority has any bearing whatsoever on religious truth, evidently God didn't get the memo.

I can go a step further to prove that the JWs are not God's special chosen group. At least not any more than any other Christian group.

Let's take Peds Nurse for instance. I hope she doesn't mind me using her as an example and I hope I am not breaking the rules by using her as an example.

If it came to only one person on this website being a true Christian, who would the majority of us think it was? Most likely Peds Nurse. Why? Because she shows a lot of humility. She is always sweet and kind. She never stoops to put downs or arrogant statements. She seems to exhibit all the fruits of the holy spirit. She also seems to show a lot of wisdom. There are very few atheists and agnostics on this site who dislike her. She knows how to speak to unbelievers and be at peace with them.

So here is someone who seems to exhibit the fruits of the holy spirit. Is seen as having wisdom by many. Atheists and skeptics are generally at peace with her (people who most Christians here would probably see as the enemy). So from a biblical perspective she appears to fit the bill as being a true Christian.

Is she a Jehovah's Witness? No.

Is it likely that ANY Jehovah's Witnesses are part of the Christian denomination she is part of? Not likely.

So if she is the shining example of a true Christian. If she is part of that chosen group that Jesus has handpicked, we can't possibly include the Jehovah's Witnesses in that group.

Until any JW member can show they have all these fruits of the holy spirit, that they are seen as wise and their enemies are at peace with them, why should anyone believe that the Jehovah's Witness church is Jesus's chosen group?

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 72 by OnceConvinced]

I am not here to debate debaters or personalities. Was there anything on the topic at hand you wanted to ask?

[otseng]

Looks like....Oh never mind...!

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[Peds nurse]

[Replying to post 72 by OnceConvinced]

Let's take Peds Nurse for instance. I hope she doesn't mind me using her as an example and I hope I am not breaking the rules by using her as an example.

Hello OC, it is always a pleasure to converse!

The only reason that it makes me uncomfortable, is because I feel I am no better than anyone else. I just speak from my heart, which is the only way I know how. There are so many Christian historians, and passionate Christians on this forum, and I believe everyone has their place. Even the opposing side comprises some of my favorite people. I might not share in all of JW's belief's, but I am certain he/she has a place on this forum, and I rather enjoy the posts and perspective.

The entire purpose of the thread is to get a perspective on the purpose of different denominations, and whether they help or hinder. In my opinion, they do way more harm than they could ever do good.

[OnceConvinced]

Was there anything on the topic at hand you wanted to ask?

Evasion of questions noted.

I've already asked you to back up your original claim that the Jehovah's Witness church is the exclusive group chosen by God. You seem unwilling to do that.

I am not here to debate debaters or personalities.

Neither am I. I used an example of another member, not because I wanted to debate that other member. It was about discussing what the bible tells us about how we can identify the true Christians. About how the fruits of the holy spirit are obvious within true Christians. I simply used a member here as an example.

Jesus says nothing about anyone having to belong to any exclusive group. He was INclusive not EXclusive.

Can you explain why it is that we should determine a true Christian to be one that belongs to a particular denomination when the bible tells us quite clearly that the way to identify true Christians is by the fruits of the holy spirit? If you have the holy spirit in you (which would be the mark of a true Christian), these fruits should be obvious to all.

Was Paul wrong about this method of weeding out the pretenders?

[OnceConvinced]

[Replying to post 72 by OnceConvinced]

Let's take Peds Nurse for instance. I hope she doesn't mind me using her as an example and I hope I am not breaking the rules by using her as an example.

Hello OC, it is always a pleasure to converse!

The only reason that it makes me uncomfortable, is because I feel I am no better than anyone else.

There's that Christian humility. What I would expect from a true Christian.

I just speak from my heart, which is the only way I know how. There are so many Christian historians, and passionate Christians on this forum, and I believe everyone has their place. Even the opposing side comprises some of my favorite people. I might not share in all of JW's belief's, but I am certain he/she has a place on this forum, and I rather enjoy the posts and perspective.

I agree that Jehovah Witnesses have a place on this forum and should be able to feel welcome here. However, I don't think any one has the right to claim they are the true Christians while all others are not. All that achieves is conflict and ill-will. All that achieves is a lack of peace between you and your enemies, which the bible tells us would not happen if your ways are pleasing to the lord. It clearly shows a lack of the fruits of kindness, self-control, gentleness, joy, love and peace.

When I was a Christian I took very seriously Paul's words about how the true Christians can be identified by the fruits of the holy spirit. If one is not exhibiting those fruits, then why should we believe they are true Christians?

The entire purpose of the thread is to get a perspective on the purpose of different denominations, and whether they help or hinder. In my opinion, they do way more harm than they could ever do good.

I agree. From what I can see what denomination you are part of is completely irrelevant. It's all to do with the fruits. Even if some of the doctrines we have are false it is the sincerity of the Christian that matters. ie how sincere they are in their love for God. How sincere they are at living a Christian life.

The whole exclusivity mindset in my mind does not show true Christianity at all. A true Christian wishes to include everyone they can, not just those who are part of their denomination. Not just those who believe as they do. Jesus himself showed the example by spreading the message to everyone, including the dregs of society. Including the outcasts... including the gentiles. Not once did he ever teach that Christianity would be an exclusive group, specifically handpicked, to lord it over every other believer.

[JehovahsWitness]

If you have the holy spirit in you (which would be the mark of a true Christian), these fruits should be obvious to all.

Why did you here refer to {quote}"true" Christians? Why did you qualify the name?

If you are not a true Christian, what kind of Christian would you be? If you meant nothing by "true" why did you use the word? And if you meant SOMEthing would you not be indicating at the very least two groupings or classifications (one that has the adjective added and one that foes not) ... and an inability to belong to both at the same time?


Clarification appreciated

[Peds nurse]

[Replying to post 77 by OnceConvinced]

Hello OC!! I hope this finds things well in your world!

I am not sure what a "true Christian" is. I like to consider myself a student of Christianity. I hope that I am always able to learn, to grow, and to continue to mature in Christ. Some people are new to Christianity, and are but infants. Some people are stagnant in their growth, at least for a time, and others are constantly growing, maturing in thought and action. Perhaps instead of true Christian, we could use mature Christian, or better yet, maturing Christian.