Which Messianic prophecies did Jesus fulfill beyond a doubt?

[Justin108]

Born of the tribe of Judah
- considering that your support for this is Luke 3:23-33, a text that is directly contradicted by Matthew 1:1-17, I wonder which of the two are accurate (if either)
- The genealogy in Luke extends all the way back to Adam and includes Noah. There is no evidence that either of these characters even existed. A genealogy containing fictional characters cannot be reliable
- In order to use Luke's genealogy as evidence, you will therefore first have to prove that Noah and Adam were literal people. If they were merely fictional characters, the entire genealogy is unreliable

Born of a virgin
- There is absolutely no evidence for this

Descended from King David
- As mentioned before, as Matthew contradicts Luke regarding Jesus' genealogy, it's questionable which one is accurate (if either)

Declared by Jehovah to be his Son
- There is absolutely no evidence for this

Not believed in
- That's hardly a prophecy. Ironically, this prophecy is inevitably true for every false Messiah. The fact that you do not believe any of the other possible Messiah's were the true Messiah means that every one of these false Messiah's fulfill this prophecy. It's harder to not fulfill this prophecy than it is to fulfill it

Entered Jerusalem riding a donkey
- This prophecy was well known and could easily have been achieved by anyone. If I wanted to make people believe I was the Messiah, what would have stopped me from just buying a donkey and riding into Jerusalem with it? The prophecy would’ve been much more impressive had it been placed further out of human control.

Betrayed by a close associate
- How is Psalm 41:9 a prophecy? The author of Psalm 41 was clearly talking about his own struggles.

Psalm 41:9 "Even my close friend, someone I trusted, one who shared my bread, has turned against me."

Unless you mean to argue that Jesus himself wrote Psalm 41?

In Psalm 41:4, we read the author saying “Have mercy on me, Lord; heal me, for I have sinned against you.� Did Jesus sin against God? No. So clearly Psalm 41 was not about the Messiah

Betrayed for 30 silver pieces
- Zechariah 11 is very open to interpretation. A prophecy hidden in a text with a thousand possible meanings is not much of a prophecy. If you believe in prophecies hidden in layers of metaphors and interpretations then you would have to consider Nostradamus a prophet as well

Silent before his accusers
- As with the donkey before, fulfilling this prophecy was entirely in Jesus' control. If I were in Jesus' position and I wanted to go down history as the Messiah, I'd have kept silent too

Lots cast for his garments
- Just as with Psalm 41 before, Psalm 22 was not a prophecy. Unless, again, you would consider Jesus to be the author of Psalm 22 as the author was clearly talking about his own struggles.

Psalm 22:6 "But I am a worm and not a man"
- was Jesus a worm? (metaphorically speaking of course) Wasn't Jesus a sinless man? Why would Psalm 22 speak so badly of Jesus if this was about him?

Mocked while on the stake
- See above regarding Psalm 22
- Psalm 22:7 - 8 doesn't even mention a stake

None of his bones broken
Psalm 34:19 - 20 "The righteous person may have many troubles, but the Lord delivers him from them all; he protects all his bones, not one of them will be broken."

In the context of Psalm 34, the author clearly meant that God will protect the righteous person and protect all his bones from breaking. As with all the Psalms you keep listing, Psalm 34 was not a prophecy about the Messiah.

Buried with the rich
- I think this may well be the only prophecy Jesus actually fulfilled. But was Jesus unique in this prophecy at all? How many people were buried with the rich?


Can all Messianic prophecies be discredited?

[Willum]

Certainly all the prophesies that the occupying nation of Rome could make him fulfill so that he would continue to say:
Pay unto the divine Caesars their tithes, and God says to obey the pagan Empire of Rome.

Surely this is all a reasonable man needs to know about Jesus to make a judgment.

[1213]

- considering that your support for this is Luke 3:23-33, a text that is directly contradicted by Matthew 1:1-17, I wonder which of the two are accurate (if either)

I would say, the longer is more accurate. But even that may be only part of greater truth.

Can all Messianic prophecies be discredited?

Do we have any knowledge that couldn’t be discredited?

[Tired of the Nonsense]

Mic5:
[2] But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

By a strange twist Jesus of Nazareth was actually born in Bethlehem, just as the prophet Micah foretold. A very strange twist, as it turns out. Because, just to be on the safe side apparently, Jesus was born in Bethlehem twice. The first time, according to Gospel Matthew, Jesus was born prior to the death of Herod the Great, who died at a known date historically; 4 BC. And then Jesus was born yet again ten years later, according to Gospel Luke, when Joseph brought his heavily pregnant wife Mary to Bethlehem to satisfy the order by Roman governor Cyrenius (Publius Sulpicius Quirinius) which required all Jewish citizens to return to the city of their birth as part of a census. This also occurred at a known date historically; 6 AD. And thus was the prophecy well and thoroughly fulfilled, praise the Lord.

[JehovahsWitness]

Mic5:
[2] But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

By a strange twist Jesus of Nazareth was actually born in Bethlehem, just as the prophet Micah foretold. A very strange twist, as it turns out. Because, just to be on the safe side apparently, Jesus was born in Bethlehem twice. The first time, according to Gospel Matthew, Jesus was born prior to the death of Herod the Great, who died at a known date historically; 4 BC. And then Jesus was born yet again ten years later, according to Gospel Luke, when Joseph brought his heavily pregnant wife Mary to Bethlehem to satisfy the order by Roman governor Cyrenius (Publius Sulpicius Quirinius) which required all Jewish citizens to return to the city of their birth as part of a census. This also occurred at a known date historically; 6 AD. And thus was the prophecy well and thoroughly fulfilled, praise the Lord.

I have already addressed these issues. In case you missed the post here is the link


DID LUKE CORRECTLY DATE QUIRINIUS' CENSUS?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 863#831863

[Tired of the Nonsense]

Mic5:
[2] But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

By a strange twist Jesus of Nazareth was actually born in Bethlehem, just as the prophet Micah foretold. A very strange twist, as it turns out. Because, just to be on the safe side apparently, Jesus was born in Bethlehem twice. The first time, according to Gospel Matthew, Jesus was born prior to the death of Herod the Great, who died at a known date historically; 4 BC. And then Jesus was born yet again ten years later, according to Gospel Luke, when Joseph brought his heavily pregnant wife Mary to Bethlehem to satisfy the order by Roman governor Cyrenius (Publius Sulpicius Quirinius) which required all Jewish citizens to return to the city of their birth as part of a census. This also occurred at a known date historically; 6 AD. And thus was the prophecy well and thoroughly fulfilled, praise the Lord.

I have already addressed these issues. In case you missed the post here is the link


DID LUKE CORRECTLY DATE QUIRINIUS' CENSUS?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 863#831863

You are right, I missed your rebuttal of this issue. Mainly due to the fact that it occurred in another string. But the response to your rebuttal presented by polonius.advice in that same string was perfectly splendid.
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 863#831863

[Goat]

Mic5:
[2] But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

By a strange twist Jesus of Nazareth was actually born in Bethlehem, just as the prophet Micah foretold. A very strange twist, as it turns out. Because, just to be on the safe side apparently, Jesus was born in Bethlehem twice. The first time, according to Gospel Matthew, Jesus was born prior to the death of Herod the Great, who died at a known date historically; 4 BC. And then Jesus was born yet again ten years later, according to Gospel Luke, when Joseph brought his heavily pregnant wife Mary to Bethlehem to satisfy the order by Roman governor Cyrenius (Publius Sulpicius Quirinius) which required all Jewish citizens to return to the city of their birth as part of a census. This also occurred at a known date historically; 6 AD. And thus was the prophecy well and thoroughly fulfilled, praise the Lord.

Except of course, if you look at the passage in Mich 5 in context, it is not talking about a place, it is talking about a tribe.

If you read Micah 5.1 from the Mesoric text, it says

And you, Bethlehem Ephrathah-you should have been the lowest of the clans of Judah-from you [he] shall emerge for Me, to be a ruler over Israel

[Willum]

[Replying to Goat]

Except of course, if you look at the passage in Mich 5 in context, it is not talking about a place, it is talking about a tribe.

And you, Bethlehem Ephrathah-you should have been the lowest of the clans of Judah-from you [he] shall emerge for Me, to be a ruler over Israel

Except of course, if you look at what happened, Jesus never ruled anything.

[1213]

....Roman governor Cyrenius (Publius Sulpicius Quirinius) which required all Jewish citizens to return to the city of their birth as part of a census. This also occurred at a known date historically; 6 AD....

Is there any chance that your years are wrong? Or could it be that Cyrenius arranged more than one census?

[Tired of the Nonsense]

....Roman governor Cyrenius (Publius Sulpicius Quirinius) which required all Jewish citizens to return to the city of their birth as part of a census. This also occurred at a known date historically; 6 AD....

Is there any chance that your years are wrong? Or could it be that Cyrenius arranged more than one census?

Wikipedia
Census
When the Romans took over Judea in 6CE, the legate Publius Sulpicius Quirinius organised a census for tax purposes. The Gospel of Luke links the birth of Jesus to this event.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Census

Jewish Encyclopedia
Census of Quirinius.
It is possible that this objection to being numbered had something to do with the uprising, led by Judas the Galilean, against the census undertaken by Quirinius (Cyrenius) in the years 6-7 (Luke ii. 2; Acts v. 37). This census, or rather the taxation which was the outcome of it, is mentioned by Josephus ("Ant." xviii. 1, § 1); and Luke connects with it the date of the birth of Jesus. But it has been conclusively proved by Schürer ("Gesch." i. 508-543) that such a census could not have been undertaken by a Roman official while Herod was still reigning. No details are known with regard to this census of Quirinius.
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/4171-census

Wikipedia
Publius Sulpicius Quirinius
From 12 – 1 BC, he led a campaign against the Homonadenses, a tribe based in the mountainous region of Galatia and Cilicia, around 5 – 3 BC, probably as legate of Galatia. He won the campaign by reducing their strongholds and starving out the defenders.[3] For this victory, he was awarded a triumph and elected duumvir by the colony of Pisidian Antioch.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quirinius

During the years when the Gospel of Matthew indicates that Jesus was born, circa 5 BC, prior to the death of Herod in 4 BC, Quirinius was in Turkey fighting a war.