Does God change his mind?

[OnceConvinced]

A Christian member of our forum recently pointed out a bible contradiction for all to see:

This verse was presented first:
Numbers 23:19 "God is not human, that he should lie, not a human being, that he should change his mind."

The Christian then attempted to trump it with a contradictory scripture where God DOES change his mind, thus exposing a blatant bible contradiction:

Jeremiah 18:8 "But if that nation about which I spoke turns from its evil way, I'll change my mind about the disaster that I had planned for it."

Here are further verses that show God changing his mind:

Exodus 32:14
So the LORD changed His mind about the harm which He said He would do to His people.

Amos 7:3
The LORD changed His mind about this. "It shall not be," said the LORD.

Jeremiah 18:10
if it does evil in My sight by not obeying My voice, then I will think better of the good with which I had promised to bless it. (wow this is a verse where God says he will break his promise!!)


So questions for debate:

Does Got change his mind?
If he does change his mind, how do we know he hasn't changed his mind about much of what he expected from us in the New Testament?
If he does change his mind, how can we really know what he wants of us today?

[JehovahsWitness]

So questions for debate:

Does Got change his mind?
If he does change his mind, how do we know he hasn't changed his mind about much of what he expected from us in the New Testament?
If he does change his mind, how can we really know what he wants of us today?

Does Got change his mind?

Yes I believe he does.

If he does change his mind, how do we know he hasn't changed his mind about much of what he expected from us in the New Testament?

God promised to inform his servants of his standards and requirements and keep them up-to-date on developments (see Amos 3:7). In the absense of this, the general principle for God's people is to "keep doing what you're doing" (compare Mat 28:18, 19)

If he does change his mind, how can we really know what he wants of us today?


See above

[OnceConvinced]

If he does change his mind, how do we know he hasn't changed his mind about much of what he expected from us in the New Testament?

God promised to inform his servants of his standards and requirements and keep them up-to-date on developments (see Amos 3:7). In the absense of this, the general principle for God's people is to "keep doing what you're doing" (compare Mat 28:18, 19)

There are many of his servants claiming that God keeps them up to date on things like this. I can think of one member on this site in particular who believes that Jesus communicates directly with her and who will even go against NT teachings due to the certainty Jesus is telling her something different.

The fact is, there are many servants out there all insistent that Jesus is telling them things, often which conflict with the bible. Many become church leaders. Many start up new denominations. Some even start their own exclusive societies and publish their own special material that contain things they believe Jesus has been telling them.

Yet these people often come up with conflicting messages to each other.

so it would seem that maybe its true and God has changed his mind about a lot of what's in the New Testament.

How do we identify who the correct people are and that what they are saying really is from God?

BTW what do you get from Numbers 23:19?

How do you explain away a verse that clearly tells us that God does not change his mind. Was God lying about himself?

[onewithhim]

If he does change his mind, how do we know he hasn't changed his mind about much of what he expected from us in the New Testament?

God promised to inform his servants of his standards and requirements and keep them up-to-date on developments (see Amos 3:7). In the absense of this, the general principle for God's people is to "keep doing what you're doing" (compare Mat 28:18, 19)

There are many of his servants claiming that God keeps them up to date on things like this. I can think of one member on this site in particular who believes that Jesus communicates directly with her and who will even go against NT teachings due to the certainty Jesus is telling her something different.

The fact is, there are many servants out there all insistent that Jesus is telling them things, often which conflict with the bible. Many become church leaders. Many start up new denominations. Some even start their own exclusive societies and publish their own special material that contain things they believe Jesus has been telling them.

Yet these people often come up with conflicting messages to each other.

so it would seem that maybe its true and God has changed his mind about a lot of what's in the New Testament.

How do we identify who the correct people are and that what they are saying really is from God?

BTW what do you get from Numbers 23:19?

How do you explain away a verse that clearly tells us that God does not change his mind. Was God lying about himself?

I think that it's obvious that it is PEOPLE who have caused confusion about what God wants. If we stick with the Bible we will not be confused. Again, it's various people's views that make us confused. God has made it clear, throughout the Bible, what is acceptable to Him.

I don't believe that God changes His mind, as if He was taking back some faulty thinking on His part. No, I think that when He says "I will change my mind if they stop doing their evil," He already had decided that He would not carry out a punishment to certain people IF they stopped their wickedness. In THAT sense I believe He might say that He "changed His mind."

.

[hoghead1]

[Replying to post 4 by onewithhim]

Many people have trouble with the notion that God can change. This has to do with the fact that the Bible is not a book in metaphysics or systematic theology. It tells us very little about how God is build, so to speak. What we get are snap shots that often conflict. And it's up to us to piece them together if we can. Hence, once the church worked its way into the upper, educated classes, and people were asking the big questions, the early church looked to Hellenic metaphysics and standards of perfection, to enable it to provide a solid metaphysic. Certain predominant schools of Hellenic thought, such as Plato, Aristotle, Parmenides, Zeno, viewed the world of time and change as a big illusion. The truly divine, the "really real," was something wholly immutable, immaterial, simple. The Greeks enshrined the immune and the immutable. Translated into Christianity, this meant God was traditionally defined, in the major theologians, creeds, and confessions, as void of body, parts, passions, compassion, wholly immutable, wholly independent of creation, standing in no need of the world. God was seen as the Passionless Absolute, the Unmoved Mover.

Since the 1940's, however, some theologians have challenged this classical model of God. Hence, there is now neo-classical theism. I am a neo-classical or process theologian. We hold that the classical model of God is too lopsided and unrealistic. We view God as a synthesis of both consistency and change. There is what you might call the absolute nature of God, what God always does, that God is always loving, empathic, luring us to greater beauty. And there is the relative nature of God. God as concrete personality, God as continually changing. Being deeply moved and affected by others is also a virtue. God is not aloof, immune, but empathically shares in all the sorrows and joys of all creatures. A wholly immutable or static God is an indifferent God; and who can put any faith in such a Deity? I can't. I need a God who is responsive. I view God and the world as mutually interdependent, and I believe God grows as the world goes.

When it comes to the Bible, many passages do speak of God as immutable, true; but around 100 others also speak of God as changing ( e.g., Gen. 6:6, Hosea, 11:8). Malachi 3:5-7 is sometimes seen as a denial that God can change, but actually affirms otherwise. God persists in certain attitudes ("I, the Lord, change not") and in this consistency does not vary. But rather than affirming divine immutability, the passage speaks of divine change. "Return to me, that I might return to you" implies that if we change in a certain direction, God will change in an appropriate way. In process theology, God is not deflected from a commitment to seek the greatest beauty in all situations; but to promote the greatest beauty, God must be informed by the feelings of others.

[dio9]

After some few minutes of thought on this question , I say yes God does change his/her mind in accordance with the human condition , which he seems to be quite concerned with.

[ttruscott]

A Christian member of our forum recently pointed out a bible contradiction for all to see:

This verse was presented first:
Numbers 23:19 "God is not human, that he should lie, not a human being, that he should change his mind."

This verse is about telling the truth. HE does not tell a lie then change reality to conform to the lie. It has nothing to do with following changing circumstances and relationships to prove that people's actions can affect HIM.

[2timothy316]

Yes God does changes His mind when there is good reason.

Jehovah was going to destroy Nineveh but because they changed their ways He changed His mind.

"When the true God saw what they did, how they had turned back from their evil ways, he reconsidered the calamity that he said he would bring on them, and he did not bring it." Jonah 3:10

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 4 by onewithhim]



[center]

Only people can be wrong[/center]

I think that it's obvious that it is PEOPLE who have caused confusion about what God wants. If we stick with the Bible we will not be confused. Again, it's various people's views that make us confused. God has made it clear, throughout the Bible, what is acceptable to Him.

I could easily imagine you to be a person.

You have your opinions about what the Bible says that God wants.
Not everyone agrees with you.

You don't agree with everybody else.

Someone is getting it wrong, that's for sure.
Maybe it's everybody.

Were just people, after all.

[myth-one.com]

A Christian member of our forum recently pointed out a bible contradiction for all to see:

This verse was presented first:
Numbers 23:19 "God is not human, that he should lie, not a human being, that he should change his mind."

The Christian then attempted to trump it with a contradictory scripture where God DOES change his mind, thus exposing a blatant bible contradiction:

Jeremiah 18:8 "But if that nation about which I spoke turns from its evil way, I'll change my mind about the disaster that I had planned for it."

Here are further verses that show God changing his mind:

Exodus 32:14
So the LORD changed His mind about the harm which He said He would do to His people.

Amos 7:3
The LORD changed His mind about this. "It shall not be," said the LORD.

Jeremiah 18:10
if it does evil in My sight by not obeying My voice, then I will think better of the good with which I had promised to bless it. (wow this is a verse where God says he will break his promise!!)


So questions for debate:

Does Got change his mind?
If he does change his mind, how do we know he hasn't changed his mind about much of what he expected from us in the New Testament?
If he does change his mind, how can we really know what he wants of us today?

God doesn't change His mind and He does not contradict Himself.

The "contradictions" above are actually confirmations that God honors His commitments!

God chose one nation and gave them special significance as God's chosen people:

The Lord thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth. (Deuteronomy 7:6)

God selected this group to illustrate God's power on earth to other nations. That is, when the children of Israel kept their part of the covenant, God would cause them to prosper:

If ye walk in my statutes, and keep my commandments, and do them; Then I will give you rain in due season, and the land shall yield her increase, and the trees of the field shall yield their fruit... more good stuff   (Leviticus 26:3-4)

On the other hand, when they disobeyed God, they would be severely punished:

But if ye will not hearken unto me, and will not do all these commandments; And ye despise my statutes, or if your soul abhor my judgments, so that ye will not do all my commandments, but that ye break my covenant: I will also do this unto you; I will even appoint over you terror, consumption, and the burning ague, that shall consume the eyes, and cause sorrow of heart: and ye shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it...more bad stuff   (Leviticus 26:14-16)

Therefore, others could observe the children of Israel and witness the consequences of obeying and disobeying God's commandments. However, no matter how great the punishments were, God promised to never break the covenant or totally destroy the children of Israel:

And yet for all that, when they be in the land of their enemies, I will not cast them away, neither will I abhor them, to destroy them utterly, and to break my covenant with them: for I am the Lord their God. (Leviticus 26:44)

Is this the case? The Old Testament details cycles of disobedience, punishment, repentance, and forgiveness of the children of Israel. If these cycles were not so bloody, they might be comical:

And the children of Israel did evil in the sight of the Lord, and forgat the Lord their God, and served Baalim and the groves. (Judges 3:7)

Therefore the anger of the Lord was hot against Israel... (Judges 3:8)

And when the children of Israel cried unto the Lord, the Lord raised up a deliverer to the children of Israel... (Judges 3:9)

And the children of Israel did evil again in the sight of the Lord... (Judges 3:12)

And he gathered unto him the children of Ammon and Amalek, and went and smote Israel...  (Judges 3:13)

But when the children of Israel cried unto the Lord, the Lord raised them up a deliverer... (Judges 3:15)

And the children of Israel again did evil in the sight of the Lord... (Judges 4:1)

And the Lord sold them into the hand of Jabin king of Canaan... (Judges 4:2)

And the children of Israel cried unto the Lord... (Judges 4:3)

And the children of Israel did evil in the sight of the Lord: and the Lord delivered them into the hand of Midian seven years. (Judges 6:1)

And Israel was greatly impoverished because of the Midianites; and the children of Israel cried unto the Lord. (Judges 6:6)

(Gideon sent to deliver the children of Israel)
And the Lord said unto Gideon, By the three hundred men that lapped will I save you, and deliver the Midianites into thine hand...(Judges 7:7)

And it came to pass, as soon as Gideon was dead, that the children of Israel turned again, and went a whoring after Baalim, and made Baalberith their god. (Judges 8:33)

And the children of Israel did evil again in the sight of the Lord... (Judges 10:6)

And the anger of the Lord was hot against Israel, and he sold them into the hands of the Philistines... (Judges 10:7)

And the children of Israel cried unto the Lord, saying, We have sinned against thee... (Judges 10:10)

God began to show some impatience with the children of Israel after this last episode by suggesting that He would no longer deliver them. However, in the end, he kept his part of the covenant when they repented:

Yet ye have forsaken me, and served other gods: wherefore I will deliver you no more. Go and cry unto the gods which ye have chosen; let them deliver you in the time of your tribulation. And the children of Israel said unto the Lord, We have sinned: do thou unto us whatsoever seemeth good unto thee, deliver us only, we pray thee, this day. And they put away the strange gods from among them, and served the Lord: and his soul was grieved for the misery of Israel. (Judges 10:13-16)

Was the cycle finally broken? Had the children of Israel finally learned their lesson? Of course not:

And the children of Israel did evil again in the sight of the Lord; and the Lord delivered them into the hand of the Philistines forty years. (Judges 13:1)

God then sent Samson to deliver them from the hands of the Philistines. Outsiders can observe this history and know that the children of Israel are God's chosen people. When they disobey God they are severely punished. When they repent and ask for forgiveness they prosper until the next cycle of disobedience. During the entire process, God never breaks His part of the covenant!

The "contradictions" which you pointed out are simply God's chosen people during a change from obedience to disobedience or visa-versa.

And these are not contradictions. They are God complying with the terms of the covenant between God and His chosen people.

That is, when they obey His commandments they proper with lots of good stuff.

And when they disobey His commandments they are punished severely with lots of bad stuff.

When they turn from their evil ways -- God stops the bad stuff and switches them bad to good stuff.

Here is the example from Jeremiah:

8 If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them.
9 And at what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it;
10 If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them.

This is exactly what God said He would do! He would bless them when they followed His commandments and curse them when they disobeyed His commandments:

If ye walk in my statutes, and keep my commandments, and do them; Then I will give you rain in due season, and the land shall yield her increase, and the trees of the field shall yield their fruit... more good stuff   (Leviticus 26:3-4)

On the other hand, when they disobeyed God, they would be severely punished:

But if ye will not hearken unto me, and will not do all these commandments; And ye despise my statutes, or if your soul abhor my judgments, so that ye will not do all my commandments, but that ye break my covenant: I will also do this unto you; I will even appoint over you terror, consumption, and the burning ague, that shall consume the eyes, and cause sorrow of heart: and ye shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it...more bad stuff   (Leviticus 26:14-16)

Jeremiah 18 is confirmation that God does not change His mind, but abides by His covenants. They were being punished because of disobeying God laws, but turned from their wicked ways, so God began the prospering phase again. When they transitioned back to disobeying God, they were punished again.

In no way are any of the "contradictions" mentioned in the original posting real contradictions.

They are affirmations!