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Wootah wrote:
Zzyzx wrote:
Contradictory statements
Words attributed to Jesus by Luke and Matthew (whoever they may have been) appear to be contradictory (as well as perhaps irrational -- particularly those cited by "Luke").
Luke 14:26 “If any man come to Me and hate not his father and mother, and wife and children, and brethren and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple.
Matthew 22:39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’
Matthew 7:12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets
Love your neighbor – but hate your father, mother, wife, children, brothers, sisters (and yourself)?
Do unto others (hate them) as you would have them do to you (hate you)?
In psychiatry and psychology, maintaining two or more contradictory statements or positions is viewed as an indication of schizophrenia . . .
Do the statements quoted seem like wise words from a wonderful teacher / leader / preacher?
What's the contradiction?
Let's see if we can figure out if there is a contradiction between:
'You cannot be my disciple unless you hate your parents, siblings, spouse and children'
vs.
'Love your neighbor as yourself' and 'do unto others as you would have them do unto you'
Nope – no contradiction if viewed through God Glasses. Without those glasses, however, to love and hate one's family seems just a wee bit contradictory (at least to this Non-Theist who isn't seeped in Jesus lore).
Wootah wrote:
All it's saying is don't put others before Jesus.
No it is not saying that at all. It clearly says 'You cannot be my disciple unless you hate your parents, siblings, spouse and children'
Playing word games and making 'interpretations' does not change what is clearly stated.
Wootah wrote:
Before I was a Christian I certainly put family first and in many ways when we put family first we cover up the 'slime' in our families. When I became a Christian and hated my family, I no longer tolerated that 'slime'.
Condolences. We don't get to choose our family. However, some of us were not born into 'slime'. Had we been, perhaps theism would have had appeal as an escape from 'slime'?
Wootah wrote:
When you understand it you realise that putting Jesus first is the best way to love your family and your neighbour.
I am thankful that I was not indoctrinated to believe such things. An attempt was made but even as a child I did not accept such things as being true.
Is that done by theists while hating family and neighbors as required to become a disciple?
Wootah wrote:
Family is a pretty big idol, in my society at least, that gets between man and God and I think it was back then as well.
It seems as though worshiping gods often gets between a person and their family.
Wootah wrote:
I wonder what the definition is in psychiatry when one can't reason out simple conundrums, thinks they are contradictions and then implies schizophrenia?
It would be prudent to consult dictionaries for definitions of 'conundrum'
1. a riddle whose answer is or involves a pun
2. a question or problem having only a conjectural answer
3. an intricate and difficult problem
Which of those apply? How can an 'intricate and difficult problem' be 'simple'?
Is there a pun intended in the remarks attributed to Jesus?
Perhaps 'a question or problem having only a conjectural answer' applies if the speaker accepts that his answer is only conjecture.
Then again, maybe hating IS the path to love (via theism?) or love is the path to hated. I cannot say since I am not a Theist.
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Non-Theist
ANY of the thousands of "gods" proposed, imagined, worshiped, loved, feared, and/or fought over by humans MAY exist -- awaiting verifiable evidence
