A non-violent, non-angry take on why Jesus had to die

[sleepthroughthestatic]

I'm slowly working through my thoughts on this topic. Any feedback or criticism would be appreciated, from all walks of faith (or lack thereof).

Why Did Jesus Have To Die?

Jesus came to reveal to the world exactly what God is like.
John 17:25-26: "Father, I showed the world what you are like". Jesus is the "exact imprint of God's nature" (Heb 1:3).

What this means is that Jesus revealed through his life, death, and resurrection EXACTLY what God is like, has always been like, and always will be like--for His moral character is unchanging (James 1:17).

What changes EVERYTHING is our perception of who God is, and how God relates to us. If we have a bad idea of God, it is going to bear bad fruit. Judging from the Old Testament, we had a lot of bad ideas about who God is, and it bore a lot of bad fruit (such as the Canaanite massacres). Jesus was the messenger that needed to clear up these depictions of God (Mal 3:1-4).

The cross is a message that reveals that God is unconditional love, and we relate to God by participating in and embodying His love. From this, all of our salvation flows. Nothing metaphysical needed to happen.

1. Jesus died for our sins.

Jesus did not die for our sins in the sense that God was holding them against us, and so blood was necessary to appease God. Jesus died for our sins because We THOUGHT God holds our sins against us (see Deut 28), and Jesus revealed with absolute clarity that this is NOT the case and never has been the case!

We see Jesus being mocked, tortured, and killed by His worst enemies, and Jesus still says "Father, forgive them". Humanity at it's absolute worst, killing God incarnate, was freely forgiven without any merit on their behalf. If God forgives that, then we can know with absolute clarity there is nothing that God has not already forgiven.

So we see that Jesus defeated our self-condemnation, and our picture of a God that holds sin against us and demands retribution! Jesus did indeed die for our sins!

2. Jesus defeated the Bible and religion.

Jesus broke Sabbath (John 5:18). Scripture says Sabbath breakers are guilty and must be put to death (Exodus 31:14-15). Yet we also know Jesus was actually innocent (Luke 23:41) We see that Jesus was simultaneously GUILTY in the eyes of Scripture, but INNOCENT in the eyes of God.

Jesus' death was proof that religion divorced from reason and empathy can actually kill the innocent son of God. The Pharisees were genuinely following Scripture in their murder of Jesus. We do the same thing today, using Scripture to kill God's purposes.

3. Jesus' death has set humanity on a trajectory that will eventually lead to our salvation

The more people who embody God's love revealed on the cross, and pursue this showing of love with the abandon that Jesus did, the less we will continue to self-destruct as a species. If one day "the whole earth will have knowledge of God" (Hab 2:14), and the knowledge of God is love as shown on the cross, then we will stop killing each other through warfare and hurting ourselves through our ignorance and wickedness. This may actually fulfill the evolutionary process, and we will be a much fitter species that has the capacity to survive (otherwise we may actually completely destroy ourselves with warfare).

5. Jesus defeated our hopelessness in the midst of suffering

We see a God that is not alien to our suffering, and actively enters into it on our behalf. God is with us in our darkest times, and through the resurrection, we have the hope that God will ultimately defeat out suffering.

4. Jesus defeated the Problem of Evil.

In addition to entering into suffering, we also see in Jesus' ministry that Jesus always treated evil as the work of Satan, not of God. He ALWAYS did everything in his ability to combat the evil. Therefore, we can be confident that God is always doing everything within His ability to defeat the work of Satan, and never sits back and idly allows it. Which means God never causes or allows evil, which means God is not omnipotent (at least in the way we usually define the word).

5. Jesus defeated other bad theology

The Bible frequently depicts those who do good as being rewarded by God, and those who do evil as being punished--no exceptions (Deut 28). The Old Testament wrestles with this idea, and occasionally protests it (several Psalms, Job, Ecclesiastes). You can imagine how toxic this belief was, as anyone who was the victim of suffering not only was enduring their suffering, but everyone around them thought they were justly being punished by God because they did something evil! Jesus blew up this toxic idea, by showing that following God can make you die the death of a criminal.

5. Jesus defeated death

Jesus revealed that we need not fear death in our pursuit of making heaven on earth, because as revealed by the resurrection, death is temporary. This is very empowering for activism. This also defeated our anxiety about death, which can be unhealthy.

6. Jesus defeated violence.

We see that God would rather die on the behalf of others, than to kill. And we are called to do the same.

7. Jesus defeated the irrational slaughter of animals and religious rituals to appease God

I don't think God enjoyed watching a bunch of animals get killed because we thought we needed to shed blood to appease to Him (Psalm 50:13-14). Beyond that though, was the deeper problem of us thinking we needed to do the "right things" to be in God's presence. This was a barrier that blocked us from experiencing God in the relational way God desires.
And that's all I've got for now. I'll keep thinking. Feel free to add!

[William]

Mat 26:42 He went away again a second time and prayed, saying, "My Father, if this cannot pass away unless I drink it, Your will be done."

Really... you need to ask?

There is a conclusion, from Christ's private reflections, but no reply. Christ took silence to mean answer.

The impression I get is that the answer was known already and Jesus was simply expressing his human emotion to an unavoidable event

As to the plan that Christ had to die, it involved "using" people who would then be considered God-killers. Jews suffered as a consequence of the plan imposed on them.

Actually it appears that Jews suffered at the hand of Christians because those Christians themselves twisted the event to suit their own political agendas.

If you can show me where Jesus is quoted as saying it was acceptable to kill Jews in the name of GOD (as authorized by GOD) then perhaps your observation could have merit.

The OP covers the notion that people who do evil things to one another in the name of GOD are Filthy Little Liars.

One does not have to be of a particular genealogy, political or religious practitioner, to be a Filthy Little Liar. One simply has to promote filthy little lies.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 10 by 2timothy316]

So you think Adam wasn't rebelling?

Let's say that he was. He still didn't know that rebelling was WRONG until he knew right from wrong.


____________

Question:

• 
  
  Did Adam know that rebelling was wrong before he knew right from wrong?
  
  

____________

[William]

[Replying to post 10 by 2timothy316]

People say, 'why doesn't God just forgive the debt'? Using the same illustration in the video lets say that the world did this. No one's debts have to be repaid. What kind of world would we live in if everyone's work produced nothing. No one was paid for their what someone was in debt to them. We work 8 hours and because our company thinks we should forgive their debt, we get nothing. Why work at all? What if nature was this way? One law just for no reason just stopped working the way they do for just an hour. Aren't we glad that God upholds Himself to His laws?

You are trying to dove-tail an evil idea of GOD into a good one. They don't fit.

You even use as an analogy, a disgusting system of disparity in order to promote this false idea of GOD.

The idea is false, and always has been false. It is the work of filthy little lies. Jesus came to speak out against such systems and promote a new idea to replace those old evil ones.

Debt, ownership, disparity, rich/poor, paying for your life, all lies, more lies and subject to unnatural consequences.

Your analogy appears to fly in the face of the OP, and goodness in general.

To presume that human work is pointless without the reward of money and that humans would not work if everything they should be entitled to was given to them, is simply diabolical. It presumes that all humans are essentially evil. Humans are not essentially evil! They are simply treated as so by the systems which control and direct them, and one can say, if you cage an animal and poke it constantly with a sharp stick, one WILL bring out the beast in that animal.

Jesus promoted the idea - 'let the animal free and treat it with respect and kindness, that it becomes the GOD it always essentially has been.'

The Filthy Little Liar has other ideas.

[2timothy316]

[Replying to post 13 by William]

Nothing said here is Bible based. What the Bible says is the only thing that I trust. You'll have to make a Biblical case for yourself.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 14 by 2timothy316]




[center]
If we mention something in the BIBLE.. it's "Bible based".[/center]

Nothing said here is Bible based. What the Bible says is the only thing that I trust. You'll have to make a Biblical case for yourself.

I think if we invoke Jesus... and what the ideas that he supposedly promoted.. it's Bible based.

William wrote this:

"Jesus promoted the idea - 'let the animal free and treat it with respect and kindness, that it becomes the GOD it always essentially has been.' "

He might not have CITED a Bible passage, but I'm pretty sure he can get one.

[2timothy316]

He might not have CITED a Bible passage, but I'm pretty sure he can get one.

When a person says something like this it lets me know they have no idea what the Bible is about. They use eisegesis in their interpretations which is not the way the Bible is supposed to be used.

Definition of eisegesis

: the interpretation of a text (as of the Bible) by reading into it one's own ideas

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/eisegesis

When I hear 'I'm pretty sure he can get one' I brace for a eisegetical Bible interpretation.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 16 by 2timothy316]




[center]
My eisegesis is better than your eisegesis[/center]

When a person says something like this it lets me know they have no idea what the Bible is about.

And when someone says something like your statement, I think that they presume to read minds.

When I hear 'I'm pretty sure he can get one' I brace for a eisegetical Bible interpretation.

Well, you might have your expectations.

With the internet these days, it's really quite a trivial matter to get appropriate Bible quotes.

It's really just 1,2,3 for me. I do it all the time.

Have an idea, type it in to Google, copy/paste.
I think a clever kid could be taught to do that.

( these days, a clever kid will TEACH US how to do that )

[2timothy316]

And when someone says something like your statement, I think that they presume to read minds.

LOL Not quite. If a person is asked what 2 + 2 is and they answer 12, it doesn't take a mind reader to know that the person doesn't understand math. I'm not reading your mind I'm making a simple observation that when a person uses eisegetical Bible interpretation for texts in the Bible they don't understand the Bible.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 18 by 2timothy316]




[center]My eisegesis is better than your eisegesis
Part Two[/center]

And when someone says something like your statement, I think that they presume to read minds.

LOL Not quite.

I wasn't joking.

It's QUITE QUITE, my friend.
That's quite what I think.

If a person is asked what 2 + 2 is and they answer 12, it doesn't take a mind reader to know that the person doesn't understand math.

Oddly, I don't think of the Bible as math.

I'm not reading your mind I'm making a simple observation when a person uses eisegetical Bible interpretation they don't understand the Bible.

You can observe your ideas real easy.
I don't doubt it.

You may have the idea that your idea is true, too.

[William]

[Replying to post 13 by William]

What the Bible says is the only thing that I trust.

Trusting GOD is a far better option. Not something which claims to be the word of GOD, calls evil deeds the work of GOD and is historically linked with major political atrocity. There is no substitute for GOD. Not theology, doctrine or dogma.

You cannot actually dovetail evil actions with GOD. It leads to the dark-side and is serious abominable stumbling block.

The Bible is not the word of GOD. {LINK}