What is God?

[Zzyzx]

.
Many people here and elsewhere speak as though they know a lot about God (or God of the Bible or God of Abraham) one of the thosands proposed).

However, when asked, they do NOT seem to know anything beyond

1. Vague generalities (a spirit, up in the sky, 'father', etc)
2. What God can do (all-knowing, all-powerful, omnipresent, etc)
3. What God supposedly did (created)
4. What God supposedly said (to someone?)
5. What God supposedly wants (obedience, worship)
6. What ancients wrote about their impressions of God

None of the above identifies what God IS.

In a current thread HogHead wisely observed:

If we don't know what God is, can't give God an affirmative content, then the concept of God is meaningless and should be dropped.

Ignosticism says much the same thing -- "we cannot intelligently discuss the topic of God until someone defines and describes what we are to discuss".

So, what IS the God of which you speak?

[Willum]

[Replying to Zzyzx]

Psychologically, God is security.
Faith that somewhere something is right and absolute.
Daddy from when we were four.

Something to keep us safe from a mysterious and callous world. It is a creature with the power to protect us from anything, who has unimaginable wisdom and loves us because we love him.

God is daddy.

But the first story is the important one.
Daddy throws us out of the garden of Eden, the paradise of youth, because we gain wisdom to know his good and evil, we are mature, and need clothes to show our maturity.

Judaism turned the children's story into a tale of horror, where we grow up and take responsibility, to one of sin and eternal damnation.

It's a terrible twist which humanity has suffered for.

[American Deist]

So, what IS the God of which you speak?

My personal view is that God is the creative, intellectual force that designed the universe and exploded it into existence during the Big Bang, complete with all the laws of nature.

Can I prove any of it? Nope.

Can anyone disprove it? Nope.

[Willum]

[Replying to American Deist]

I'll direct your attention to an OP created by USER: "Tire of the Nonsense," that should address many of your concerns: Explaining Existence

[American Deist]

[Replying to post 4 by Willum]

I don't have any concerns.

[Willum]

[Replying to post 5 by American Deist]

The post eliminates the need for an intelligent creator.
Providing proof for somethings you claim you can/can't prove.

Also, this is a debate forum. Invoking your personal beliefs is detrimental to the forum, because criticizing these can innocently degrade into a personal attack. So, please provide substance to your belief so that it may be discussed without criticizing you personally.

I believe, because matter is neither created nor destroyed, that God created nothing, because nothing was ever created. (But that is a discussion for ToN's thread).

[Zzyzx]

.

My personal view is that God is the creative, intellectual force that designed the universe and exploded it into existence during the Big Bang, complete with all the laws of nature.

That opinion seems to fit 1. Vague generalities (a spirit, up in the sky, 'father', etc) and 3. What God supposedly did (created). Agreed?

It says nothing about what 'God' actually IS beyond generalities ("creative, intellectual force") -- which can be imagined for any proposed entity (or even a person).

[American Deist]

That opinion seems to fit 1. Vague generalities (a spirit, up in the sky, 'father', etc) and 3. What God supposedly did (created). Agreed?

It says nothing about what 'God' actually IS beyond generalities ("creative, intellectual force") -- which can be imagined for any proposed entity (or even a person).

The same could be said of anything.

Let's take the Big Bang for example. Atheists, scientists and even myself; we all tend to agree that it happened. Why? Because when studying astronomy and cosmology, you will find that star light has a red tint as it moves away from us. It is referred to as the red shift. If you reverse that trajectory long enough, everything seems to have a central starting point.

However, the Big Bang is only a theory, not an absolute. Another aspect of the red shift is that not only is the universe expanding, but the stars/galaxies are also accelerating. Let's reverse that acceleration and decelerate over billions of years. Everything could come to a screeching halt BEFORE it all got to a singular starting point. What we could wind up with is not a Big Bang, but rather a starting point where a vast universe was created and set in motion, and has been expanding and accelerating ever since.

The point is that science has theories; some of which can't be proven true at this point in time. Just like science, I too have theories... and some are about God.

[American Deist]

I'll direct your attention to an OP created by USER: "Tire of the Nonsense," that should address many of your concerns: Explaining Existence

The only problem with that explanation is that he is explaining things from a human perspective. He is making absolutes out of our primitive understanding of the universe.

Let's say for one moment that God does exist, and that that entity is omnipotent. If it was God's will to create a vast universe from nothing, and to place said universe (or multiverse) into the vastness of nothingness, then it would be so. An omnipotent entity would be transcendent, not limited or subject to the laws of nature, physics, thermodynamics or anything else. Snap those divine fingers, and *poof* the universe just is. That is what it means to have absolute omnipotence.

Now, can any of that be proven? No, of course not. Nor can it be disproven. Since it can't be disproven, no one can say that God absolutely does NOT exist.

It very well could be that God is an omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent entity that designed all of those scientific laws that we observe through science. God could have created gravity, energy and the principles of thermodynamics, evolution, nuclear fusion, organic and inorganic matter, etc. We don't know. Right now, we can't know. That is beyond our capabilities.

[Willum]

[Replying to American Deist]

I believe you have given strong example to Mr. Z's point.

You have very specific descriptions about the Big Bang for example. Even though it is a belief, you have specific, even quantified/quantifiable approaches to arriving at the conclusion.

What about God?
I have quantified reasons for believing God is a psychological construct of replacing the infallible daddy of our childhood, with a God who can not be proven otherwise.

The only way God can exist is by being undefinable, slippery and amorphous, and most importantly undetectable, with appealing characteristics.