Why have a war (defense) Department?

[2Dbunk]

I have been told that we are a Christian country. Christians are part and parcel of Christ’s teachings, are they not? Turn the cheek, love thy neighbor, don’t pass judgement on those who would offend you (the list goes on), yet only a few Christian denominations adhere to this pastoral code (Quakers, Amish, most Mennonites, some Brethern) – my dad was Mennonite and my first wife was Brethern, so I know a little something about these quiet, observing sects. So why are we a, a Christ-like nation, bristling with all kinds of hardware to do our world neighbors in. Early in my life I was taught that all we needed was FAITH – whatever else happened, those with enough FAITH were shoe-ins for heaven.

Reading today’s paper I wasn’t astounded to hear President Trump say that in the past 15 years the USA has expended six trillion dollars in the Middle east with nothing to show for it (“that we are worse off than before�). And then, nearly in his next breath (his CPAC speech last week), he seemed to forget what he’d just said and promised he would be “upgrading all of our military, offensive, defensive, everything,� in what will be “one of the greatest military buildups in American history� (I’m assuming to do some of those turkeys in -- correct me if I’m wrong).

If we are a nation of Christians who really expect to go to heaven (soon) why are we committing 3.6% of our GNP to combatting fear when all we have to do is embrace Jesus and let the train wreck? The train wrecks and all the Christians go to heaven – simple.

[agnosticatheist]

I have been told that we are a Christian country. Christians are part and parcel of Christ’s teachings, are they not? Turn the cheek, love thy neighbor, don’t pass judgement on those who would offend you (the list goes on), yet only a few Christian denominations adhere to this pastoral code (Quakers, Amish, most Mennonites, some Brethern) – my dad was Mennonite and my first wife was Brethern, so I know a little something about these quiet, observing sects. So why are we a, a Christ-like nation, bristling with all kinds of hardware to do our world neighbors in. Early in my life I was taught that all we needed was FAITH – whatever else happened, those with enough FAITH were shoe-ins for heaven.

Reading today’s paper I wasn’t astounded to hear President Trump say that in the past 15 years the USA has expended six trillion dollars in the Middle east with nothing to show for it (“that we are worse off than before�). And then, nearly in his next breath (his CPAC speech last week), he seemed to forget what he’d just said and promised he would be “upgrading all of our military, offensive, defensive, everything,� in what will be “one of the greatest military buildups in American history� (I’m assuming to do some of those turkeys in -- correct me if I’m wrong).

If we are a nation of Christians who really expect to go to heaven (soon) why are we committing 3.6% of our GNP to combatting fear when all we have to do is embrace Jesus and let the train wreck? The train wrecks and all the Christians go to heaven – simple.

A lot of our citizens are Christians. Our government is NOT christian. Look at Washington DC. Pagan and Occult stuff everywhere. The capitol building and the Washington Monument are occult symbols. They represent the womb of isis and the phallus of osiris. You see the same thing with the vatican and across the river from thebes back in ancient egpyt. That is NOT christian. Lol. According to christians, pagan and occult stuff is satanic. I dont think christianity is true, and that stuff may or may not be evil, but it is NOT christian.

[2Dbunk]

[Replying to post 2 by agnosticatheist]

]A lot of our citizens are Christians. Our government is NOT christian. Look at Washington DC. Pagan and Occult stuff everywhere. The capitol building and the Washington Monument are occult symbols. They represent the womb of isis and the phallus of osiris. You see the same thing with the vatican and across the river from thebes back in ancient egpyt. That is NOT christian. Lol. According to christians, pagan and occult stuff is satanic. I dont think christianity is true, and that stuff may or may not be evil, but it is NOT christian.

Very interesting and informative reply, thank you. But that was not what I was hoping for. Yeah, my OP is with tongue-in-cheek -- I'm mocking those who adamantly claim the US to be a Christian nation. That is the reported religion of most Americans in polling surveys. All of our presidents have been, save for the Deist influenced ones (Jefferson, Madison, maybe Monroe and Quincey Adams). All of our congressman and women are Christian with very few exceptions.

But the degree of FAITH in divine Christianity of our populace is the fly in the ointment, the bug in the juice. It is so diluted that the population's doubts are driving governmental policy, especially in defense spending. Just like our last presidential election, we have been psyched into signing off for absurd and bazaar notions so to enable us to supposedly survive. In defense spending we pour billions into the F-35 fighter to knock off camel jockeys and Toyota pickups . Why -- to defend against Russian technology? Last I heard, our president is on the same page (if not in bed) with Russia's Putin, so Russia is no longer the enemy. More nukes? We already have enough to destroy the world ten times (to the third power!).

There will be some in this forum who will claim they are the only true Christians and that admission to heaven will be reserved for just a very few (quite in contrast to results showing a large majority of those polled throughout the country -- thinking they are going to heaven). No, we are a flawed populace floundering in a sea confused with hyperbole -- no different from any other country. The 600 billion defense budget is the symptom showing our sacrifice to the anti-Christ (or will it be 666 billion? LOL).

Can anyone put a more positive spin or poke holes in my analysis?

[agnosticatheist]

[Replying to 2Dbunk]

American Christians not practicing what they preach, and not practicing what is in their bible. Tell me something new.

[marco]

American Christians not practicing what they preach, and not practicing what is in their bible. Tell me something new.

It depends which part of their preaching you take. Matthew 10.16 advises: 'Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.' It is hard to incorporate these two opposing qualities, so perhaps the intention to be dove-like is all one can express. When push comes to shove we must obey the motto: If it's peace you seek, prepare for war.

On earth we're supposedly the church militant, not yet enjoying the triumphant status of saints. The problem with Christian messages is that when we find message A we can also find its recommended antithesis, B.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 1 by 2Dbunk]

Like the Quakers, Amish, most Mennonites, some Brethern JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES also live by the Christian principle of love. We don't vote and keep free from politics believing that the religion and politics should be completely separate. No political country can really claim to be a "Christian country" since as you point out, all have engaged in, support or spend vast sums of money to fund war. Christians who really walk the walk (rather than just talk the talk) and love their enemies as instructed. Jehovah's Witnesses are the "real deal".

Jehovah's Witnesses currently have thousands of our young men in prison as conscientious objectors because they wish to live as true Christians. It is a matter of historical fact that American JWs also suffered in the same way during WWII.


JEHOVAHS WITNESS

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[marco]

Jehovah's Witnesses currently have thousands of our young men in prison as conscientious objectors because they wish to live as true Christians.

Theoretically commendable but in real terms reprehensible, since all that it takes for evil to succeed is that good people do nothing. It is easy to imagine what further horrors would have occurred had people in WW2 adopted the "no resistance" stance.

When a "good book" gives bad advice -or presents a text that is ambiguous - then evil can result. Those good people who blow up others across the world and then praise God's guidance are also following what they see as their religion. War is evil but it is sometimes necessary because man is a flawed being, not a god.

[Willum]

Purely economical reasons, but maybe in parody of the Bible.

God doesn't seem to understand how to fix things or make peace. Satan dorks up creation with the apple, does God know or try to fix it?

No,
he punishes the victims and guilty alike.

Continuing on in Biblical history, God strikes Sodom, Gomorrah, peoples, even the entire world rather than repair it.

If you have seen the 5th element Gary Oldman as "Zorg,' gives a good explanation as why we have a defence department, breaking things causes jobs.

Still more wisdom can be found in the European adoption of universal health care:

Upon observing how well the economy worked when people were building tanks and missiles and ships to be destroyed and left on the bottom of the ocean, they realized that things would work better if you applied the same principle to constructive things.

That is a lesson I'd love the US to learn.

Or even, instead of having the armies be destructive, in times of peace, maintain peace with construction, just as the Roman armies did, bu building.

[JehovahsWitness]

Jehovah's Witnesses currently have thousands of our young men in prison as conscientious objectors because they wish to live as true Christians.

Theoretically commendable by in real terms reprehensible

I understand and totally see what you are saying that not killing in politically motivated wars is reprehensible. I can see what you mean, those that both claim and practice love of neighbour viewing all men as their neighbours are reprehensible people. All we can do is hope that some remember Matthew:

Matthew 7:1-3 (KJV)

Judge not, that ye be not judged.

For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

That said, I am aware that the majority of people commend Christians for supporting and participating in war and that many see refraining from making war, not adding to violence and refusing to killing their fellowman as as one of the major things that put them off of Christianity. Jehovah's Witnesses are willing to be judged for reprehensibly showing love and refusing to support violence, hatred and nationalism, by the one that judges all and hope their non-violence and unwillingness to kill both their own Christans brothers from other nations and their fellowman will be pardoned by that one.

Perhaps the Almighty will understand that JWs completely misunderstood Jesus central and fundamental message and took it to be one of peace and love and will pardon them, reprehensible as this mistake might be.

JW






Further Reading: Why Don’t Jehovah’s Witnesses Go to War?
https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesse ... go-to-war/

For my earlier post on first century Christians and militarism see link
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 183#788183
_________________

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 5 by marco]

QUESTION: Can Jehovah's Witnesses be accused of "doing nothing" because they refuse to participating in political wars and violence?

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"


- Edmund Burke

Some have repeatedly claimed that the above quote by the Irish statesman Edmund Burke can fittingly be applied to Jehovah's Witness who systematically refuse to participate in war or to support in any way any political war movements. Is this a fair appraisal?

Blessed are the Peacemakers

While Jehovah's Witnesses do not engage in physical warfare and refuse to use violence to further their or anyone's goals, that does not mean they "do nothing" in today's climate of growing violence. They are active in an outreach work, that can be classified biblically as a "spiritual war". Even in war zones and uprisings JWs attempt to change the attitudes that lead to war and oppression. There is a famous saying that "guns don't kill, people do" emphasising that it is the minds and intentions of people, the individuals that make up a nation, that leads ultimately to war and violence. If war, oppression and violence has a solution it lies in the elimination of the root causes of these actions; things such as hatred, racism, nationalism, greed, extreme ideologies, lack of respect for freedom, etc.

• By their active preaching work, Jehovah's Witnesses participate in a global education work that aims to root these things out of people, one heart at at time. And the effectiveness of their work is testified by the fact that many that were formerly violent or had intense hatred for other national groups have changed their lives and attitude to be, as Jesus said "peacemakers". So far from being inactive ie just being "peaceful", Jehovah's Witnesses are "making peace" by spending billions of hours a year, re-educating the people that hold the guns.

Do they envision their work will lead to a world conversion to their peaceful attitude?

• No, Jehovah's Witnesses are entirely realistic in that they understand they will not be able to change everyone, and their education work will not of itself result in world peace. That said however it is not "pointless". To illustrate: Just as hundreds of rescue workers, digging after an earthquake will not be able to save everyone but reason that if they can fine even one person alive and get them out, they view the time as well spent. In the same way, the many billions and billions of hours Jehovah's Witnesses work, even in some of the most dangerous countries on earth, if they change just one person to put down their gun and change their attitude they view it will be time well spent. Further they are also campaigning for an incoming world government that WILL overthrow the present world powers and establish world peace and sincerely believe the world must be informed of this coming global change.

Helping victims of war

Another area in which Jehovah's Witnesse are active is in helping war victims. Their disaster relief network enables them to quickly access war zones with supplies and relief and they do so for their fellow Witnesses and others. Indeed their reputation for being politically neutrality often procures those participating in such work safe passage. The Witnesses that participate in such work do so at the risk of their own lives.

Not surprisingly, war victims often have a desperate need not only for material provisions but for hope. Many have lost family members, their homes, businesses and seek answers as to why God has allowed such suffering. Jehovah's Witnesses, even while themselves suffering the ravages of war, are often the first to share a comforting message of hope with their neighbours. They sincerely believe that God's kingdom for which millions of Christians have prayed throughout the centuries will be the means for ending war and completely crushing out of existence all extremist, regimes that cause so much suffering.

CONCLUSION: Jehovah's Witnesses actively participate in a work they believe will result in profound changes in those they reach, while not hesitating to provide support, protection and comfort to those in war torn areas to the best of their ability. Many that have been through tribal, civil and even international conflicts have stories of the individual strengh, courage and aid provided by Jehovah's Witnesse so far from being "good men that do nothing" they are recognized by many as "good men that do much".





RELATED POSTS

Can Jehovah's Witnesses be accused of "doing nothing" because they refuse
to participate in political wars and violence?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 43#p853543

Does the fact that Jehovah protected his people through divine war mean he (God) is unconcerned with global justice?
viewtopic.php?p=827368#p827368

Are Jehovah's Witnesses cowards and oportunists?
viewtopic.php?p=881988#p881988