Is Deism a form of Theism?

[Zzyzx]

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Is Deism a form of Theism?

In a current thread a Deist claims to NOT be a Theist.

I AM NOT A THEIST. The more that you post in this thread, the more you show that you do not understand deism.

However, Theism is defined as:

Belief in the existence of at least one deity. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/theism

Belief in the existence of a god or gods, especially belief in a personal God as creator and ruler of the world. http://www.thefreedictionary.com/theism

Does Theism involve belief in a god?

Does Deism involve belief in a god?

Deism is essentially the view that God exists, but that He is not directly involved in the world. Deism pictures God as the great “clockmaker� who created the clock, wound it up, and let it go. A deist believes that God exists and created the world, but does not interfere with His creation. https://www.gotquestions.org/deism.html

Can someone clarify how belief in a god is NOT Theism?

[American Deist]

[Replying to post 1 by Zzyzx]

I'd be happy to assist you in understanding the difference between theism and deism!

Theism is the belief in God, and that God is involved with creation, believers can have a personal relationship with God, prayers may be answered, miracles performed, divine intervention, etc. Theistic religions typically have holy books that are given by divine revelation, and those books contain ancient stories that often contradict modern knowledge. Theism is loaded with dogma. Theism often has an evil nemesis to God, which may include a devil, demons, malevolent spirits, etc. Theism is the basis for Abrahamic religions.


Deism is the belief in God based on one's personal observations of nature, the cosmos, and life experiences. Deists reject divine revelation, reject divine intervention and miracles because of free will, and do not have holy books. Deists agree with science and medicine, and have no problems with philosophical arguments. Deists reject the notion of devils, demons, evil spirits, and any other type of boogeyman. Deism is a personal philosophy as opposed to a religion.

Having said all of that, no deism is not a form of theism. The belief in God comes first, before one can start adding dogma, rites, ceremony, tradition, etc. to round out a belief and convert a philosophy into a religion. Although not coined until the Age of Enlightenment, the concept of deism (there is a God/s) goes back to the dawn of humankind. Theism would be an expansion of deism.

Hope that helps!

[Divine Insight]

[Replying to post 1 by Zzyzx]

I'd be happy to assist you in understanding the difference between theism and deism!

Actually your explanation is incorrect. You are talking about "Classical Theism" not theism in general.

Deism does not qualify as a "Classical Theism" but it most certainly is a theism in general. It's just not eligible to be considered to be a variation of "Classical Theism" because the classical theists refuse to acknowledge it as a form of "Classical Theism".

This should be a huge problem for "Christians Deists" but ironically Christian Deists don't seem to care. Apparently they aren't concerned that Classical Theists reject Deism as not qualifying as a valid variation of Classical theology.

But no, you are wrong to claim that deism is not a theism in general. It most certainly is. Any belief in any type of "god" qualifies as a theism in general.

Deism simply doesn't qualify as a valid form of "Classical Theism". That's all.

So while it's correct to say that Deism doesn't qualify as "Classical Theism", it's incorrect to say that Deism is not a theism at all.

If you are a deist, then you are a theist. You're just not a "Classical Theist". That's all.

Also, why would it be important to try to claim that deism is not a theism? What would be the supposed benefit of making that claim?

To claim that deism is not "Classical Theism" is certainly true. But I doubt that anyone would argue with that.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 2 by American Deist]




[center]A unique definition of "theism"[/center]

Deism is the belief in God based on one's personal observations of nature, the cosmos, and life experiences.

That's exactly what many Christians would say.
Personal experiences are all the rage.

Some of them say "look at the trees".
That's a famous line.

Deists reject divine revelation, reject divine intervention and miracles because of free will, and do not have holy books.

Some people REALLY cling to that "free will" hypothesis, don't they?

I don't think that theists used to have a book before they had one, either.
Then, some of them wrote a book.

I guess you write your own "book" and believe that.
I wonder how you acquired those beliefs?

You say "observing nature"... and that's odd because I observe nature too.. No gods are actually visible.

Deists agree with science and medicine, and have no problems with philosophical arguments.

At least some Christians use apologetics, and those are philosophical arguments.
I don't think they have a problem with them, either.

Deists reject the notion of devils, demons, evil spirits, and any other type of boogeyman. Deism is a personal philosophy as opposed to a religion.

There are very many Christians who have a "personal belief" and would say that they have "no religion". Interesting, no?

Having said all of that, no deism is not a form of theism.

If deism includes a god concept, you have a very strange definition of what "theism" means.

The belief in God comes first, before one can start adding dogma, rites, ceremony, tradition, etc. to round out a belief and convert a philosophy into a religion.

Ah.. so a god IS involved.

By that measure, deism is a SUBSET of theism.
It's just another kind of god belief.

God beliefs are theistic.
The word "theistic" means "about god".

Although not coined until the Age of Enlightenment, the concept of deism (there is a God/s) goes back to the dawn of humankind. Theism would be an expansion of deism.

No, that would be the other way around.
You just said that deism came AFTER theism, in the Age of Enlightenment.

It was invented then, perhaps, and then you say the idea was around since the dawn of humankind. Weird.

And even weirder is the very idea that you would KNOW what people believed at the dawn of humankind. Very weird and strange notion, my friend.

Some people took the idea of GOD and then changed it a bit to suit their fancy.
But, as far as I can tell, the idea of THEOS came first. You know, historically.

At least, that's what the historical records show.


You might mean that deism is less complex than theism.
But in any case, deism still has a god hypothesis.

God is a god, as far as I can tell. And as far as I can tell, you believe in a god.
I hate to break it to ya, but belief in a god is the common definition of "theism".

[DanieltheDragon]

[Replying to post 2 by American Deist]

Words in the English language tend to have more than one meaning.

noun
1.
the belief in one God as the creator and ruler of the universe, without rejection of revelation (distinguished from deism ).
2.
belief in the existence of a god or gods (opposed to atheism ).



If we use the first definition, you might have a point. If we use the second you don't. Given the context of most discussions involving god belief from a non God belief perspective, we tend to use the second definition as its most inclusive. Deists and Christians tend to go with the first definition as they want to distinguish themselves from each other. To me all God belief is God belief wether your religious or not.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 1 by Zzyzx]

I always thought so, I may be mistaken, but I understood it to believing there is a god but he is unknowable.

[Elijah John]

I think Theists in general rely on revelation, whereas Deists believe in God based on nature and Reason.

That is Thomas Paine's definition/distinction.

So Deists tend to reject most if not all of the Bible or Quran, whereas (Abrahamic) Theists tend to accept one or the other as authoritative.

But there is some overlap between Deism and Theism. Paul in the first chapter of Romans gets very Deistic citing nature (Creation) as a primary reason to believe in God.

And Paine acknowledges the possibility of Divine revelation to any given individual. But once that individual tells the revelation to a third party, it becomes "hearsay". It is only revelation to the first person to receive it.

Paine also acknowleges the likelihood of an afterlife, though he does not worry about the details.

All Theistic religions have Deism at their core, that is the simple belief in God. But Theism elaborates with doctrines derived from revelation, or from speculation depending on how one looks at it.

Personally, (though I am not a strict Deist), I tend towards a Deistic approach to Christianity, viewing the miracles stories with skepticism, but embracing the basic belief in God, prayer and the ethics associated with the God of Jesus and His people.

So to directly answer the OP title/question, no Deism is not a form of Theism, but Theism is a form of Deism, with Deism at it's core.

[American Deist]

All Theistic religions have Deism at their core, that is the simple belief in God. But Theism elaborates with doctrines derived from revelation, or from speculation depending on how one looks at it.

Thanks for reiterating what I have been saying for years!

If you want to know what deism is, ask a deist. Simple.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 8 by American Deist]

If you want to know what deism is, ask a deist. Simple.

I would have thought so, but going by what you have written so far, maybe not.

Deism has a god.. theism has a god.
They just aren't the same KIND of god.

What a HUGE difference.. that doesn't make at all.

Both words have the root word "God".
One is in Latin and one is in Greek.

One god has human characteristics, and the other has not.


[center]
Deus = Theos = God[/center]

[American Deist]

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