Besides 'because the bible says so'....

[Youkilledkenny]

Let's leave out the 'because the bible says' arguments for this thread; biblical quoting is pointless in this discussion as a book claiming itself to be true is ludicrous and is seemingly only permissible with the bible itself.

What are the (I'd guess) many reasons why someone that currently doesn't believe in the biblical god* should believe in the biblical god?
Are there any items you can point to nature and say "See? God!" without debate?
Are there actions that everyone comes in contact with that says "See? God!" without debate?
Are there any part of humanity where one can point and say "See? God!" without debate?
Or are all non-biblical references to God simply too personalized to use in this scenario?




* Biblical god here meaning not 'a god' but the god as described in the current, modern Christian bible from both Testaments

[JehovahsWitness]

Let's leave out the 'because the bible says' arguments for this thread; biblical quoting is pointless in this discussion as a book claiming itself to be true is ludicrous and is seemingly only permissible with the bible itself.

What are the (I'd guess) many reasons why someone that currently doesn't believe in the biblical god* should believe in the biblical god?
Are there any items you can point to nature and say "See? God!" without debate?
Are there actions that everyone comes in contact with that says "See? God!" without debate?
Are there any part of humanity where one can point and say "See? God!" without debate?
Or are all non-biblical references to God simply too personalized to use in this scenario?




* Biblical god here meaning not 'a god' but the god as described in the current, modern Christian bible from both Testaments

What are the (I'd guess) many reasons why someone that currently doesn't believe in the biblical god* should believe in the biblical god? The reasons are because the claimed author of the book has proved to be able to provide therein accurate reliable and trustworthy information, which if applied honestly, makes for a happier and more fulfilling life now, and the reliable promise of everlasting life in a paradise on this our planet earth in the future.


Are there any items you can point to nature and say "See? God!" without debate? A fool can "debate" whether the sky is blue, so no, one can always be confronted with debate even if what is being said is evidently true. Truth cannot unlock a heart closed by willful ignorance. There can be no reasonable debate against the evident reality that the universe and the world around us displays astounding evidence of design, purpose and forthought.

Are there actions that everyone comes in contact with that says "See? God!" without debate?

See above.


Are there any part of humanity where one can point and say "See? God!" without debate?

See above.

Or are all non-biblical references to God simply too personalized to use in this scenario?

No, reason, good science, and a logical mind willing to accept what can and cannot be done without supernatural direction can lead any truthful unbias heart to accept, not only that there is a God but that he loves us.


JW


Further reading: Does God Exist?
https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/q ... god-exist/

How do we know the bible is the word of God?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 255#840255

Free Download: https://www.jw.org/en/publications/books/?start=36
[/quote]

[Justin108]

What are the (I'd guess) many reasons why someone that currently doesn't believe in the biblical god* should believe in the biblical god?

The reasons are because the claimed author of the book has proved to be able to provide therein accurate reliable and trustworthy information, which if applied honestly, makes for a happier and more fulfilling life now, and the reliable promise of everlasting life in a paradise on this our planet earth in the future.

Can you give a few examples?

A fool can "debate" whether the sky is blue, so no, one can always be confronted with debate even if what is being said is evidently true.

Are you suggesting it is "evidently true" that the Biblical God created everything?

Truth cannot unlock a heart closed by willful ignorance.

Are you suggesting nonbelievers are all willfully ignorant?

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 2 by JehovahsWitness]



[center]
The outsider's test for religious pamphlets[/center]

The reasons are because the claimed author of the book has proved to be able to provide therein accurate reliable and trustworthy information, which if applied honestly, makes for a happier and more fulfilling life now, and the reliable promise of everlasting life in a paradise on this our planet earth in the future.

And that could be said about every religious booklet.
We get it that religious people really like their religious pamphlets and handouts.

What would make yours any different?

If what a person reads makes them happy, more fulfilled seems accurate, reliable, trustworthy does that mean what they just read has to be true?

If so.. all religious pamphlets are true.
Just as long someone believes something... it becomes magically true somehow.

This is what I call magical thinking.
Atheists don't indulge.

[ttruscott]

I've not seen 'because the bible says' in this place for the last 5 years...I see quoting the bible to establish for Christians that a point of view is Christian but not as proof of anything...

[Justin108]

I've not seen 'because the bible says' in this place for the last 5 years...I see quoting the bible to establish for Christians that a point of view is Christian but not as proof of anything...

The post you point to only really demonstrates the antiquity of the Canon, not it's validity as the "Word of God".

QUESTION How do we know the bible (canon) is the word of God?

The contents of the bible present convincing evidence of its Divine origin.

#1 It claims to be the word of God.

Few authors actually claim the content of their books are the word of God. Even many of the so-called holy books rarely make this explicit claim. The writings of Hindu Vedic , for example, is essentially a collention of ritualistic commentaries about t hymns, philosophical treatises called the Upanishads, and the epic stories known as Ramayana and the Mahabharata. Buddha did not claim to be a god, and he actually said very little about God. The texts of Confucianism are an amalgam of records of events, moral rules, magical formulas, and songs. With the exception of the Quran, the holy book of Islam, surprisingly few religious make the unique claim of contain the words, thoughts, prophecies and instructions of Almighty God Himself.

[rikuoamero]

[Replying to post 2 by JehovahsWitness]

A fool can "debate" whether the sky is blue, so no, one can always be confronted with debate even if what is being said is evidently true.

So someone who is colour blind and argues the colour of the sky is a fool...? Either that JW, or you might want to take care with your posts and think them through first before hitting the 'Submit' button.

What are the (I'd guess) many reasons why someone that currently doesn't believe in the biblical god* should believe in the biblical god? The reasons are because the claimed author of the book...

If I'm understanding the OP correctly, the Bible is off limits. So trying to use the Bible (even if it actually IS true, such as the resurrection of Jesus) could not be used in this thread.

Truth cannot unlock a heart closed by willful ignorance. There can be no reasonable debate against the evident reality that the universe and the world around us displays astounding evidence of design, purpose and forthought.

Thing is JW...this is a mere assertion. You can't just claim the universe at large is designed, and then expect the rest of us to just nod our heads and fall into lockstep, and not only that...insult anyone who might disagree with you!
Can I say the same about you? Here's what I'm going to say about YOU.

Truth cannot unlock a heart closed by willful ignorance. There can be no reasonable debate against the evident reality that the universe and the world around us does not display evidence of design, purpose and forthought.

Should I get away with saying you are wilfully ignorant? Should I get away with calling you a fool for even arguing that there is a god when obviously there isn't?

Or are all non-biblical references to God simply too personalized to use in this scenario?

No, reason, good science, and a logical mind willing to accept what can and cannot be done without supernatural direction can lead any truthful unbias heart to accept, not only that there is a God but that he loves us.

JW...the OP ASKED for some of these. WHAT reason/good science/logic do you have to back you up if the Bible is off-limits?

[rikuoamero]

I've not seen 'because the bible says' in this place for the last 5 years...I see quoting the bible to establish for Christians that a point of view is Christian but not as proof of anything...

...don't you base your PCE theology around some verses from the Bible, without supporting evidence? As in, this spiritual pre-conception realm stuff you talk about all the time...if you took the Bible off the table, what could you use to support the argument "Humans existed as souls pre-conception, and were given a choice by God"?

[Zzyzx]

.

No, reason, good science, and a logical mind willing to accept what can and cannot be done without supernatural direction can lead any truthful unbias heart to accept, not only that there is a God but that he loves us.

What, exactly, can be done with 'supernatural direction' that cannot be done without such 'direction'? There is a thread to discuss that topic viewtopic.php?t=32043

[Zzyzx]

.

What are the (I'd guess) many reasons why someone that currently doesn't believe in the biblical god* should believe in the biblical god?

The reasons are because the claimed author of the book has proved to be able to provide therein accurate reliable and trustworthy information,

The anonymous authors of said book provide much information that is inaccurate and unreliable.

which if applied honestly, makes for a happier and more fulfilling life now,

Opinion noted. Is there verifiable evidence that the claim is true for all people who 'apply honestly' the book?

Is 'apply honestly' wiggle room to be applied when the claim fails -- wherein the claimant can resort to 'they must not have applied it honestly' (without evidence of course)?

and the reliable promise of everlasting life in a paradise on this our planet earth in the future.

HOW, exactly, can the reliability of 'everlasting life' promise be determined?