Jehovah's Witnesses consider Jesus to be God's Son

Exploring the details of Christianity

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
JehovahsWitness
Savant
Posts: 21073
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:03 am
Has thanked: 790 times
Been thanked: 1114 times
Contact:

Jehovah's Witnesses consider Jesus to be God's Son

Post #1

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Jehovah's Witnesses consider Jesus to be unique in that he is the only begotton son of God. His existence preceded the creation of the earth, the angels, and every living creation.


Question for debate : Do you believe Jesus to be a unique son, and if so, in what way?
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

Elijah John
Savant
Posts: 12235
Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2013 8:23 pm
Location: New England
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 16 times

Re: Jehovah's Witnesses consider Jesus to be God's Son

Post #2

Post by Elijah John »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Jehovah's Witnesses consider Jesus to be unique in that he is the only begotton son of God. His existence preceded the creation of the earth, the angels, and every living creation.


Question for debate : Do you believe Jesus to be a unique son, and if so, in what way?
Isn't there a Psalm which reads "you are my son, today I have begotten you". If so, King David is also God's "only begotten Son".

What many Christian apologists read as a "prophesy" seems far more likely to be yet another Biblical contradiction, contradicting John's 3.16 assertion that Jesus is God's only begotten Son..

Perhaps we are taking the term "begotten" too literally.

I sure don't take it to mean "eternally pre-existent" as John teaches.
I don't take it to mean "Jesus is Michael the Archangel" as JWs teach.
I don't even take it to mean Jesus is the "firstborn of all Creation" as Paul teaches.

So I understand the term to mean that Jesus is God's most favored Son. An expression of the very unique closeness Jesus has to God.

Remember, Jesus teaches us to pray "Our Father", not "Jesus' Father".

Yes, Jesus is "unique" in that he's closest to God. But that does not make him the "only" begotten.

Everyone who is "born from above" ("born-again") is "begotten" then. Isn't that what Jesus taught in that very same Gospel?.

"Begotten" means "to be born of".
My theological positions:

-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.

I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.

polonius
Prodigy
Posts: 3904
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2015 3:03 pm
Location: Oregon
Been thanked: 1 time

There are lots of Sons of God.

Post #3

Post by polonius »

Psalm 2:7New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
7 I will tell of the decree of the LORD:
He said to me, “You are my son;
today I have begotten you.


(NB Traditionally, the Psalms were written by David long before Jesus.)

“Sons of God� in the Bible:

The title "son of God" is frequent in the Old Testament. The word "son" was employed among the Semites to signify not only filiation but other close connexion or intimate relationship.

Thus, "a son of strength" was a hero, a warrior, "son of wickedness" a wicked man, "sons of pride" wild beasts, "son of possession" a possessor, "son of pledging" a hostage, "son of lightning" a swift bird, "son of death" one doomed to death, "son of a bow" an arrow, "son of Belial" a wicked man, "sons of prophets" disciples of prophets etc.

The title "son of God" was applied in the Old Testament to persons having any special relationship with God.

Angels, just and pious men, the descendants of Seth, were called "sons of God" (Job 1:6; 2:1; Psalm 89:7; Wisdom 2:13; etc.). In a similar manner it was given to Israelites (Deuteronomy 14:50); and of Israel, as a nation, we read: "And thou shalt say to him: Thus saith the Lord: Israel is my son, my firstborn. I have said to thee: Let my son go, that he may serve me" (Exodus 4:22 sq.).

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14142b.htm

Those claiming that Jesus was the only Son of God are ignoring much of the Bible and trying to justify their own belief system

2timothy316
Under Probation
Posts: 4161
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2016 10:51 am
Has thanked: 175 times
Been thanked: 457 times

Re: There are lots of Sons of God.

Post #4

Post by 2timothy316 »

polonius.advice wrote:
Those claiming that Jesus was the only Son of God are ignoring much of the Bible and trying to justify their own belief system
Jesus was a unique son of God.

"He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten [monogenés] Son of God." John 3:18

monogenḗs (from 3411 /misth�tós, "one-and-only" and 1085 /génos, "offspring, stock") – properly, one-and-only; "one of a kind" – literally, "one (monos) of a class, genos" (the only of its kind).
http://biblehub.com/greek/3439.htm

Jesus wasn't the only 'son of God' he was the only 'one of a class of and one of a kind of offspring/son'. Now who knows what scriptures are used to show that Jesus was unique? How does what was said at Heb 11:17 help understand what a 'one of a kind' means? Abraham had more than one son (Ge 16:15) yet Abraham's son Issac is called only begotten in Heb 11:17, why?

User avatar
JehovahsWitness
Savant
Posts: 21073
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:03 am
Has thanked: 790 times
Been thanked: 1114 times
Contact:

Re: There are lots of Sons of God.

Post #5

Post by JehovahsWitness »

[Replying to post 3 by polonius.advice]

I'm sorry I couldn't quite glean from your answer, do you believe Jesus is unique in any way, and if so in what way?

Thanks

JW
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

polonius
Prodigy
Posts: 3904
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2015 3:03 pm
Location: Oregon
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: There are lots of Sons of God.

Post #6

Post by polonius »

2timothy316 wrote:
polonius.advice wrote:
Those claiming that Jesus was the only Son of God are ignoring much of the Bible and trying to justify their own belief system
Jesus was a unique son of God.

"He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten [monogenés] Son of God." John 3:18

monogenḗs (from 3411 /misth�tós, "one-and-only" and 1085 /génos, "offspring, stock") – properly, one-and-only; "one of a kind" – literally, "one (monos) of a class, genos" (the only of its kind).
http://biblehub.com/greek/3439.htm

Jesus wasn't the only 'son of God' he was the only 'one of a class of and one of a kind of offspring/son'. Now who knows what scriptures are used to show that Jesus was unique? How does what was said at Heb 11:17 help understand what a 'one of a kind' means? Abraham had more than one son (Ge 16:15) yet Abraham's son Issac is called only begotten in Heb 11:17, why?

RESPONSE: Jesus was clearly not one of a kind as the Bible documents.

The first mention of a begotten son of God was in Psalms referring to David. Jesus was no more or less a Son of God than the many other sons of God mentioned in the Old Testament, in fact all Israelites.

polonius
Prodigy
Posts: 3904
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2015 3:03 pm
Location: Oregon
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: There are lots of Sons of God.

Post #7

Post by polonius »

polonius.advice wrote:
2timothy316 wrote:
polonius.advice wrote:
Those claiming that Jesus was the only Son of God are ignoring much of the Bible and trying to justify their own belief system
Jesus was a unique son of God.

"He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten [monogenés] Son of God." John 3:18

monogenḗs (from 3411 /misth�tós, "one-and-only" and 1085 /génos, "offspring, stock") – properly, one-and-only; "one of a kind" – literally, "one (monos) of a class, genos" (the only of its kind).
http://biblehub.com/greek/3439.htm

Jesus wasn't the only 'son of God' he was the only 'one of a class of and one of a kind of offspring/son'. Now who knows what scriptures are used to show that Jesus was unique? How does what was said at Heb 11:17 help understand what a 'one of a kind' means? Abraham had more than one son (Ge 16:15) yet Abraham's son Issac is called only begotten in Heb 11:17, why?

RESPONSE: Jesus was clearly not one of a kind as the Bible documents.

The first mention of a begotten son of God was in Psalms referring to David. Jesus was no more or less a Son of God than the many other sons of God mentioned in the Old Testament, in fact all Israelites.
And "There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare [children] to them, the same [became] mighty men which [were] of old, men of renown.(Genesis)

polonius
Prodigy
Posts: 3904
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2015 3:03 pm
Location: Oregon
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: There are lots of Sons of God.

Post #8

Post by polonius »

polonius.advice wrote:
polonius.advice wrote:
2timothy316 wrote:
polonius.advice wrote:
Those claiming that Jesus was the only Son of God are ignoring much of the Bible and trying to justify their own belief system
Jesus was a unique son of God.

"He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten [monogenés] Son of God." John 3:18

monogenḗs (from 3411 /misth�tós, "one-and-only" and 1085 /génos, "offspring, stock") – properly, one-and-only; "one of a kind" – literally, "one (monos) of a class, genos" (the only of its kind).
http://biblehub.com/greek/3439.htm

Jesus wasn't the only 'son of God' he was the only 'one of a class of and one of a kind of offspring/son'. Now who knows what scriptures are used to show that Jesus was unique? How does what was said at Heb 11:17 help understand what a 'one of a kind' means? Abraham had more than one son (Ge 16:15) yet Abraham's son Issac is called only begotten in Heb 11:17, why?

RESPONSE: Jesus was clearly not one of a kind as the Bible documents.

The first mention of a begotten son of God was in Psalms referring to David. Jesus was no more or less a Son of God than the many other sons of God mentioned in the Old Testament, in fact all Israelites.
And "There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare [children] to them, the same [became] mighty men which [were] of old, men of renown.(Genesis 6:4))

Elijah John
Savant
Posts: 12235
Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2013 8:23 pm
Location: New England
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 16 times

Post #9

Post by Elijah John »

Also, the term "Son of God" when used in the Abrahamic tradition of the one true God should only be considered metaphor. Pagan pantheons have family members, or why stop at YHVH's son? Why not suppose YHVH has a daughter, a brother, an aunt, and uncle or parents?

Unfortunately JWs and Trinitarians have literlized the term. But it is clear in the OT the term was not meant to be literal.
My theological positions:

-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.

I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.

2timothy316
Under Probation
Posts: 4161
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2016 10:51 am
Has thanked: 175 times
Been thanked: 457 times

Re: There are lots of Sons of God.

Post #10

Post by 2timothy316 »

polonius.advice wrote:
2timothy316 wrote:
polonius.advice wrote:
Those claiming that Jesus was the only Son of God are ignoring much of the Bible and trying to justify their own belief system
Jesus was a unique son of God.

"He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten [monogenés] Son of God." John 3:18

monogenḗs (from 3411 /misth�tós, "one-and-only" and 1085 /génos, "offspring, stock") – properly, one-and-only; "one of a kind" – literally, "one (monos) of a class, genos" (the only of its kind).
http://biblehub.com/greek/3439.htm

Jesus wasn't the only 'son of God' he was the only 'one of a class of and one of a kind of offspring/son'. Now who knows what scriptures are used to show that Jesus was unique? How does what was said at Heb 11:17 help understand what a 'one of a kind' means? Abraham had more than one son (Ge 16:15) yet Abraham's son Issac is called only begotten in Heb 11:17, why?

RESPONSE: Jesus was clearly not one of a kind as the Bible documents.

The first mention of a begotten son of God was in Psalms referring to David. Jesus was no more or less a Son of God than the many other sons of God mentioned in the Old Testament, in fact all Israelites.
The term is 'only begotten'. Not just begotten. The source of the word 'begotten' in Hebrew is the word 'root'.

In Greek there is gennaó = begotten or fathered http://biblehub.com/greek/1080.htm
Acts 13:33

and monogenés = only begotten, meaning one of a kind http://biblehub.com/greek/3439.htm
Luke 7:12

We are all 'begotten' sons and daughters of God. Jesus is the is unique in having the tilte 'only begotten' Son. Like Issac had the title 'only begotten' son even though Abraham had other sons. Accept the Greek and Hebrew as to what 'begotten' and 'only begotten' translates into English or as you said, 'ignore much of the Bible and try to justify your own belief system'.

Post Reply