How can so many Christians continute to claim

[Elijah John]

How can so many Christians continue to claim that "Jesus is God" when he made at least one failed prediction?

Or if Jesus didn't actually make the prediction in Matthew 16, then don't we need evidence outside of the NT that "Jesus is God"?

And even the NT is not clear and unambiguous in the claim, as it never states that "Jesus is God" in a simple, three word declaration.

So then, what evidence outside of the Bible is there that can support the claim that "Jesus is God"?

[Willum]

[Replying to post 1 by Elijah John]

Easy, men mis-interpret things all the time. What God said may be on a different plane than we understand, and words may simply fail.

The evidence is simple.
Jesus was resurrected and ascended to heaven.

And they never found the body.
Ascension, no body. What more proof do you need?
QED.

[Divine Insight]

How can so many Christians continue to claim that "Jesus is God" when he made at least one failed prediction?

Or if Jesus didn't actually make the prediction in Matthew 16, then don't we need evidence outside of the NT that "Jesus is God"?

And even the NT is not clear and unambiguous in the claim, as it never states that "Jesus is God" in a simple, three word declaration.

So then, what evidence outside of the Bible is there that can support the claim that "Jesus is God"?

Matt. 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Matt.17:5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

Mark.1:11 And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Mark.9:7 And there was a cloud that overshadowed them: and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.

Luke.3:22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.

Luke.9:35 And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.

Christians don't believe in polytheism and they reject the idea that Jesus was a "demigod". Therefore they had no choice but to invent the idea of the trinity where Jesus is merely an incarnated aspect of God.

Also they have the following:

John.10:30 I and my Father are one.

Jesus proclaims right there that he is the same as the Father God.

John.8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily,verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

In the above verse Jesus verifies that he's always existed even before he was born and even before Abraham was. How would this make sense otherwise?

John.14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Jesus proclaims that he is the life, and the truth. Therefore he must be God.

Plus, in this religion, it would be extreme blaspheme for Jesus to claim that anyone would need to go through him to get to the Father God if he himself was not that very God.

I may not agree with, or believe in Christianity, but at least I understand it. The questions you keep posing to Christians appear to me to exhibit an extreme lack of understanding of what Christianity is all about.

You can't demote Jesus in Christianity to just being another prophet. You may as well be preaching Islam or Judaism if you're going to do that.

[Zzyzx]

.

Easy, men mis-interpret things all the time.

Agreed.

What God said

Where / when has 'God' actually SAID anything?

may be on a different plane than we understand, and words may simply fail.

If words attributed to 'God' may be 'on a different plane', HOW can anyone claim to KNOW the meaning of such words?

The evidence is simple.
Jesus was resurrected and ascended to heaven.

CORRECTION: That is a CLAIM – a tale in religious literature. It is NOT evidence – only a claim – a story. There is no assurance that any such thing actually happened in the real world (though it may be common in imagination, mythology and storytelling).

And they never found the body.

A lot of bodies are never found. Were they all 'resurrected and ascended'?

A lot of tombs are empty. Were occupants resurrected and/or ascended (or just some favorite one)?

Ascension, no body.

'Ascension' a TALE in religious literature. It is not proof of anything.

What more proof do you need?

Actual, verifiable evidence that a claim is true.

QED.

Not by a long-shot – nothing more than speculation

[Willum]

[Replying to Zzyzx]

I am afraid I am inch deep on this one. EJ asked, I answered, but to your further questions, I have no further answers.

You really don't think an empty tomb solves all problems?
It has been purported as a proof, forever.

A lot of bodies are never found. Were they all 'resurrected and ascended'?

A lot of tombs are empty. Were occupants resurrected and/or ascended (or just some favorite one)?

I wouldn't presume that they were all resurrected, more were probably ravaged by animals, but I can't speak to how many, I presume some select favorite.

But I'll put it back on you, Jesus' body was never found and witnesses, 30, 60 and 220 years afterwards claimed to see him ascend. How do you argue with the claims of people after 30+ years?

[MuffMaYne]

It's never explicitly stated that Jesus is God, but we come to that conclusion from a few thing that are said about him (Christ) and God and their relationship towards one another.

Gen 1:26 Then God said, "Let US make mankind in OUR image, in OUR likeness...

John 3:34-35 For the One whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God gives the Spirit without limit. 35The Father loves the Son and has placed all things in His hands.…

And theres other things, but I'd rather not post a wall of text. It goes on to mention Jesus existing before the world and so on. He (Christ) has all the qualities of God.

While Christ isnt the Father, he has all the qualities and "abilities" and has existed from the beginning just like the father. In a sense they're like the same person existing in 2 different spaces or bodies.

[TheBeardedDude]

[Replying to post 6 by MuffMaYne]

"Gen 1:26 Then God said, "Let US make mankind in OUR image, in OUR likeness... "

You interpret this as meaning God and Jesus are the "us" and "our," but have you considered that this is an allusion to the polytheistic roots of Judaism instead? In the very same way that one of the ten commandments says "thou shalt have no other Gods before me" implies the existence of Gods other than Yahweh.

[bjs]

[Replying to Elijah John]

Please be more explicit about what you think the “failed prediction� is that Jesus made in Matthew 16.

The NT does make at least one clear and unambiguous statement that Jesus is God in Philippians 2:6.

[MuffMaYne]

[Replying to TheBeardedDude]

Yea, actually I have taken that into consideration, but I feel is a long stretch considering the context. I think, although many people wont admit it, they don't take context into consideration at all. To get from "Put no other God before me" to there was more than one God is just playing with words and disingenuous.

Of course there were other gods (note the lowercase "g").

Exo 20:23 Do not make any gods to be alongside me; do not make for yourselves gods of silver or gods of gold.

There were all kinds of "gods" because people were just making "gods" out of anything for any reason. The point of that commandment isn't that there are other (real) Gods, the point is that they shouldn't have other gods, point, blank, period.

[TheBeardedDude]

[Replying to post 9 by MuffMaYne]

"Of course there were other gods (note the lowercase "g")."

Except early versions of the Torah discuss the existence of multiple gods: Yahweh and his wife Asherah, and Elyon, Elohim, and El. So it would seem that the very basis of your religion started off with the assertion that "of course there are other gods." What happened to them?