Is Christianity another false religion

[psychdave]

The below is taken from a British website http://churchandstate.org.uk, but I think it makes for an interesting debate. Clearly if you believe something is true to enough degree, it becomes your sense of reality. If I firmly believe that a tree at the bottom of my garden was sacred and prayed to it daily, my mind would be numbed to any negative thoughts about said tree and psychologically I would believe that said tree would listen to my problems and therefore unloading problems to it would psychologically make me feel better. Any non answers to my prayers would be disregarded as "being best for me" and all answers vigorously celebrated. The same applies to anything you firmly believe in be it God or a sacred tree......


There is very little that we can prove in this world. However, we can look for evidence to support claims people make and, when there is sufficient supporting evidence and no contrary evidence, we can conclude a claim is probably true.

However, it is easier to prove something is false – all you need is contradictory evidence. Here are my eight reasons why Christianity is false. There is abundant evidence to support each reason. I don’t have space here to give the evidence but if you are not aware of it, I can provide it.

1. There is clear evidence that prayer does not work despite the Bible promising prayers will be answered.

2. There is clear evidence that humans invent gods and there is no reason to believe the Jewish god is an exception.

3. There is clear evidence that religions and gods are propagated through culture by infecting children, and no evidence that they are propagated by gods.

4. There is clear evidence that religions evolve as human understanding of the world changes whilst a real, God-given religion, should never need to change.

5. There is clear evidence that humans on this planet have unequal access to Christianity so, if Christianity is true, billions would be condemned to hell for no fault of their own. This contradicts the Christian notion that God is omni-benevolent.

6. There is clear evidence that the Bible, supposedly inspired by God, is riddled with the type of errors that we would expect from Iron Age men but not from the creator of the universe.

7. Christian theology is incoherent to the point of absurdity. God killing his son so he can forgive our future sin is like me breaking my son’s legs so I can forgive my neighbour in case she ever parks her car on my drive. It is quite ridiculous.

8. There is clear evidence that the arguments presented for the existence of God are founded on logical fallacies – all of them. All that is left for Christians is faith and their feelings. We know that faith and feelings can be used to believe in any god at all – including non-existent gods. So faith and feelings are epistemologically worthless. And that is all Christians have.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 1 by psychdave]



For the sake of discussion are we to assume that there is a God and that the bible is to be accepted as the standards by which one is measuring the above criteria?

The reason I ask is because the standards of measurement outlined would depend on what is meant. For example ...

PRAYER may well "work" according what is meant by "work". If for example, prayer is considered to "work" if you feel better after doing it then by far the majority of believers would say prayer works. Further the only way to present this as "clear evidence" is to first prove the bible suggests that all prayers will, at least, be answered. Since this is not what Christianity teaches, I do believe this is what is considered a "strawman argument".



JW

[JehovahsWitness]

2. There is clear evidence that humans invent gods and there is no reason to believe the Jewish god is an exception.

What is the evidence that "humans invented god"?

If by "god" you mean the invisible supernatural creator (the understanding of God in Christianity) please outline your evidence to support this claim.

If I pick up a banana how pray tell, can you prove that God didn't make me do it

I suspect you will have a problem providing this evidence because you would have to prove that a given action was NOT initiated by an invisible undetectable being, but feel free you try.

3. There is ... no evidence that they are propagated by gods

See above.

[JehovahsWitness]

4. There is clear evidence that religions evolve as human understanding of the world changes whilst a real, God-given religion, should never need to change.

Say who?! Who are you the "religion police"? Sounds like Catholic dogma to me, unless you are the Pope, who are you to say what a religion should or should not do to qualify as a God-given religion?


JW

[Goose]

Here are my eight reasons why Christianity is false.

Okay so you are arguing Christianity is false.

1. There is clear evidence that prayer does not work despite the Bible promising prayers will be answered.

This wouldn’t prove Christianity false. If anything it might be an argument against the notion of Biblical inerrancy.

2. There is clear evidence that humans invent gods and there is no reason to believe the Jewish god is an exception.

But you’d have to show this was the case in regards to Christianity, not simply insinuate it could be the case by virtue of it happening elsewhere.

3. There is clear evidence that religions and gods are propagated through culture by infecting children, and no evidence that they are propagated by gods.

But how does this falsify Christianity?

4. There is clear evidence that religions evolve as human understanding of the world changes whilst a real, God-given religion, should never need to change.

Same question.

5. There is clear evidence that humans on this planet have unequal access to Christianity so, if Christianity is true, billions would be condemned to hell for no fault of their own. This contradicts the Christian notion that God is omni-benevolent.

Those who haven’t heard will be judged by the law written upon their hearts (Romans 2).

6. There is clear evidence that the Bible, supposedly inspired by God, is riddled with the type of errors that we would expect from Iron Age men but not from the creator of the universe.

An argument against inerrancy, not an argument which falsifies Christianity.

7. Christian theology is incoherent to the point of absurdity. God killing his son so he can forgive our future sin is like me breaking my son’s legs so I can forgive my neighbour in case she ever parks her car on my drive. It is quite ridiculous.

Argument by ridicule with a false analogy. Not understanding Christian theology is not evidence that Christianity is false.

8. There is clear evidence that the arguments presented for the existence of God are founded on logical fallacies – all of them. All that is left for Christians is faith and their feelings. We know that faith and feelings can be used to believe in any god at all – including non-existent gods. So faith and feelings are epistemologically worthless. And that is all Christians have.

It's demonstrably false to say that all arguments for God are founded on logical fallacies. There are numerous logically valid arguments for the existence of God.

In the end, I don’t see here a concrete argument which falsifies Christianity.

[JehovahsWitness]

5. There is clear evidence that humans on this planet have unequal access to Christianity so, if Christianity is true, billions would be condemned to hell for no fault of their own. This contradicts the Christian notion that God is omni-benevolent.

So? Where does it say that a religion can only be true from the moment there is equal access to it? Who made that rule? Truth is not subjective, something is either "true" or "false"; it doesn't become true because people know it, anymore than the earth stopped being flat when most people stopped believing it was.

The bible tells Christians to preach the word, nowhere does it say that everyone would have "equal access to it" before the teaching can be considered true. So where does this idea come from and more importantly, who made it the deciding factor in judgeing whether a religion is "god given*".


*I take it for the sake of argument, that we are discussion on the presumtion of God existing.

[JehovahsWitness]

5. ... if Christianity is true, billions would be condemned to hell for no fault of their own. This contradicts the Christian notion that God is omni-benevolent.

If Christianity is true, billions would be condemned to hell for no fault of their own.

Can you prove this? Upon what basis can you do so? Some so called Christian groups may well teach this, but Christianity most certainly does not. Indeed if the Pope is not committing himself to say whether atheists won't go to heaven, I must ask you to provide some evidence to prove this is a "Christian" teaching. Will you be refering to the bible as evidence?


This contradicts the Christian notion that God is omni-benevolent.

I have never seen this expression in the bible. Indeed the God of the bible is spoken of as hating certain types of people, the "Christian God" is most certainly spoken of as having the intention killing many people as well as taking action against Satan and the Demons. Are you suggesting that Christian theology teaches God loves Satan? So even on the basis of Christian scripture god is not "omni-benevolent".

[JehovahsWitness]

6. There is clear evidence that the Bible, supposedly inspired by God, is riddled with the type of errors that we would expect from Iron Age men but not from the creator of the universe.

That would depend on how one interprets the bible. Are you suggesting your interpretation is to be considered the one that establishes if something is "god-given" or not? Feel free to give some example that support your own interpretation as being definitive if you so wish. If not, I fear your statement will be dismissed as unsubstantiated rhetoric.

[JehovahsWitness]

7. Christian theology is incoherent to the point of absurdity.

That is a matter of opinion. I find it completely coherent and absolutely logical. What are you going to say about me and many millions that believe as I do? We now have a situation where you have an opinion and i have an opinion. Are you going to suggest my opinon is not of equal weight? If so on what basis?

[JehovahsWitness]

8. There is clear evidence that the arguments presented for the existence of God are founded on logical fallacies – all of them.

Who made the rule that in order for a religion to be true the arguments for the existence of God must be logical? For the supposed "illogical" arguments for the existence of god to falsify Christianity you will first need to establish this to be the ultimate standard of true religion. In short, if a religion teaches "we know God exists because sugar is sweet" how does that prove the religion is false? It might not be a convincing argument, but how pray tell are you going to prove that convincing arguments have to be part of a god-given religion?

JW