Shaping our communications

[Blastcat]

Just as the potter takes out a bunch of clay, we take our thoughts and shape them into bits of information. Our first attempts might not always turn out quite how we intended.

We start off with very crude lumps.. and then shape them into something that is closer and closer to what we intend.

The very beginning is always rough.
Here I stand at that place.

I am those rough edges, if you will ...

To the believer, I am a big honking mess of clay that has to be formed .. I present as a challenge. I am the clay to your pot.

People don't LIKE the ugly mess, and that's ok, because I'm there to be shaped.
Shape me.

I am here to learn from you spiritual artists out there.
Take me for a "spin".

___________________

Question for debate:

Are the challenging lumps of clay to be avoided?
Can we not cooperate to make something beautiful today?

___________________

[marco]

Just as the potter takes out a bunch of clay, we take our thoughts and shape them into bits of information. Our first attempts might not always turn out quite how we intended.

We start off with very crude lumps.. and then shape them into something that is closer and closer to what we intend.

The very beginning is always rough.
Here I stand at that place.

I am those rough edges, if you will ...

May I interrupt your extended metaphor for a moment? The potter takes his clay and your first attempts at shaping it are not too good. You are therefore the potter.

Now if you are those rough edges, then you have become the clay. How did that happen?

Your idea that we are formed by the opinions of others is not bad at all but of course some of us are just lumps of rock that never change no matter who or what works on them. Of course when the potter wants to make us into a statue of Christ, can we, as clay, resist?

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 2 by marco]



[center]The wheel of life[/center]

May I interrupt your extended metaphor for a moment?

Just don't break the pot.

The potter takes his clay and your first attempts at shaping it are not too good. You are therefore the potter.

Rough lump of clay.. work work work.. try, try again, nice pretty pot.
That's how it works, alright.

Now if you are those rough edges, then you have become the clay. How did that happen?

When I was born I had to be SHAPED somehow into the person I am today. I was born by human reproduction. We have the theory of evolution that takes us all the way back to very small kinds of animals, probably in the sea.

Before that.. I don't know.

So, I don't pretend to have an ultimate answer to that question. How did it happen?
Don't ask me.

One thing that IS sure.. here I am.

Your idea that we are formed by the opinions of others is not bad at all but of course some of us are just lumps of rock that never change no matter who or what works on them.

Rocks are seldom turned on the wheel.
There is a limit to a potter's patience.

My mom was one of those rocks.. went to her grave never changed her mind very much.. sad being closed minded like that. I don't want to be closed like that.

I AM making a point of being malleable.. but that doesn't mean GULLIBLE, either.
If you engage with me, and you make a good point, I WILL congratulate you, and I will change my mind if I have to.

But here I am... an ugly old lump of clay.
If you want to MOLD my thinking somehow, I suggest work work work, try try try.

Of course when the potter wants to make us into a statue of Christ, can we, as clay, resist?

God can fire me in the furnaces of HELL apparently.
To stretch this metaphor to a ridiculous limit.

[marco]

When I was born I had to be SHAPED somehow into the person I am today. One thing that IS sure.. here I am.

Thanks for that valuable piece of autobiography, Blastcat. I think we all followed the same transforming course as you in our voyage through life but not all of us transmogrified into moggies.

The present forum attempts to shape opinions but I wonder how many read and change. Do cats ever become dogs.... or dogs cats?

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 4 by marco]

The present forum attempts to shape opinions but I wonder how many read and change. Do cats ever become dogs.... or dogs cats?

Since I have changed in the past, I know that change is possible in the future.

I'm changing as we speak.
Change is inevitable.. I hope to change for the BETTER, and not the worse.

Not everyone is impossibly closed minded.

[Zzyzx]

.

Not everyone is impossibly closed minded.

I am willing to become a believer IF presented with sound, verifiable evidence that one (or more) of the thousands of proposed 'gods' are more than imaginary.

Show actual evidence that I or anyone can check to verify its truth and accuracy AND does not require taking someone's word (ancient or modern) that cannot be verified.

Nor will I accept unsubstantiated testimonials, no matter how fervently or emotionally presented. I will not be swayed by promises or intimidated by threats OR creative word salads. I will not 'use my imagination' to conjure up gods.

Those conditions should be easily met if there is sound reasons to believe that gods are more than imaginary

[2Dbunk]

Just as the potter takes out a bunch of clay, we take our thoughts and shape them into bits of information. Our first attempts might not always turn out quite how we intended.

We start off with very crude lumps.. and then shape them into something that is closer and closer to what we intend.

The very beginning is always rough.
Here I stand at that place.

I am those rough edges, if you will ...

To the believer, I am a big honking mess of clay that has to be formed .. I present as a challenge. I am the clay to your pot.

People don't LIKE the ugly mess, and that's ok, because I'm there to be shaped.
Shape me.

I am here to learn from you spiritual artists out there.
Take me for a "spin".

___________________

Question for debate:

Are the challenging lumps of clay to be avoided?
Can we not cooperate to make something beautiful today?

Here I am talking to a cat who is pretending to be a potter. It's a little like talking to a god who also claims to be a potter. Now I'm asked to "take a spin." It all makes me dizzy.

It truly is a beautiful day, as all days are. But I should spend more time with MY cat who, when she wants my affection, is very demanding. And I should be taking our dog for a walk rather than talking to some jaded cat in cyber space, but here goes:

Mud is mud and all lumps are to be dealt with accordingly. Like Marco says, some potters have allowed their mud to dry and harden. That is unfortunate 'cause to make a work of art, the medium must remain flexible, malleable, yielding to ever finer tooling. The hardened material WILL be discarded on the waste heap of futility and its atoms recycled in the next supernova of our star.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 7 by 2Dbunk]



[center]
Serious fun[/center]

Here I am talking to a cat who is pretending to be a potter.

Yeah, metaphors are fun, aren't they?
And are they nothing ELSE?

It's a little like talking to a god who also claims to be a potter.

Or a dog or an alien dog.
Ok, all dogs are quite "alien" to me.

Now I'm asked to "take a spin." It all makes me dizzy.

Woo woo
Go slowly at first.

It truly is a beautiful day, as all days are.

Spinning are ya?

But I should spend more time with MY cat who, when she wants my affection, is very demanding. And I should be taking our dog for a walk rather than talking to some jaded cat in cyber space, but here goes:

Im more oranged than that.

Mud is mud and all lumps are to be dealt with accordingly.

Here am I.
Deal.

Like Marco says, some potters have allowed their mud to dry and harden.

Not the VERY best potters, I'm afraid.

That is unfortunate 'cause to make a work of art, the medium must remain flexible, malleable, yielding to ever finer tooling.

Are ya tooling around?
If so, I suggest : "Water".

The hardened material WILL be discarded on the waste heap of futility and its atoms recycled in the next supernova of our star.

A good potter isn't wasteful of his basic material:

http://recyclenation.com/2014/06/recycle-clay

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 4 by marco]



[center]I used to BE a "dog".[/center]

When I was born I had to be SHAPED somehow into the person I am today. One thing that IS sure.. here I am.

Thanks for that valuable piece of autobiography, Blastcat.

I will disregard how I perceive the tone of that remark because it's not very charitable toward you. I will ASSUME that you meant well.

Thanks for your valuable piece of flattery.
I think that sometimes, real life examples are good.

I thought it was pertinent.

I think we all followed the same transforming course as you in our voyage through life but not all of us transmogrified into moggies.

I will disregard what I think about your derogation term "moggies". It would not be very charitable of me to ASSUME the worst. I don't pretend to be better than any other CAT. You don't have to remind me that I'm ordinary.

This cat KNOWS that already.


But to the meat of your comment:

Some of us GROW.. some of us STOP growing after a while.

Some people discover that they now know EVERYTHING there is to know.. due to a religious belief. Most theists in here are NOTHING if not closed minded about their precious religious beliefs.

My intention is to never stop growing.
Accepting some religious dogma is one sure way to stop.

The present forum attempts to shape opinions but I wonder how many read and change.

Not enough by far, in my opinion, and I find that very sad.

I tried all of my adult life to get my mom to change. Never happened.
She is now in her grave.

Her life was mostly miserable.
I think of that as "sad".

It's so important to have an open mind, don't you think?

Do cats ever become dogs.... or dogs cats?

Oh the macro evolution argument of the creationists?
That's just silly.

But we DO know that theists have changed into the very opposite.
Evidence?

This cat, for one.