Body/ spirit

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dio9
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Body/ spirit

Post #1

Post by dio9 »

from another line the question rose, are we spirit with bodies or bodies with spirit ?
Its a philosophical question for me , I'm for the first, but would sure like to know what others think on this. Do you see the difference? Spirit is the boss, not the body, spirit is not servant of body . The reversal of spirit and body rule is the original problem of humanity. All major religious thought directs restoration of the proper dominion of spirit over body. Is there anyone here who supports the proposition that body rules spirit?

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Post #41

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dio9 wrote:
Benoni wrote: [Replying to tam]What about the Spirit of man which returns to God who gave it. We are all made in God's image and likeness which is spirit, Show me where God is a soul? Our soul was formed from the dust of the earth where are spirit was created in God's image and likeness. Context in genesis.
Soul is simply spirit and body, our mistake is becoming dominated by the needs wants and desires of the body, (dust of the earth) . Our true self is, as Genesis says, made of God.
Soul is the carnal mind for it was formed from the dust of the earth, Not created in God's image if you look at the context of Genesis. God is a spirit true believers worship the Father in spirit and truth. Deep within every man there is a secret sanctum where dwells the mysterious essence of his being. This inmost reality is that part of a man which separates him from every other living creature and makes him uniquely mankind. This deep hidden power is what it is of itself independent of any other part of the man’s complex nature. The deep-in human entity of which we speak is called in the scriptures the spirit of man. “For what man knoweth the things of man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God� (I Cor. 2:11). As

This truth denies that man is an earthly, physical being having a spirit and declares, rather, that he is a spirit having a physical body. That which makes a man a human being is not his body but his spirit, in which the image of God originally lay.

Most people on earth have forgotten their beginning. But the scripture is clear. “And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness…and the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created He him� (Gen. 1:26; 2:7; 1:28). What God actually did was that He imaged Himself in man. God imaged Himself in man by forming Himself in a man of earth. Thus man was created as a visible expression of the invisible God. Now that hasn’t changed!

What has changed is our perception of ourselves because of the fall. But before we discuss that, let us see just how it was that God imaged Himself in man, and how it is that man is a spiritual being having an earthly experience, instead of a physical being
having a spiritual experience.

Wonderful words were spoken at the very dawn of civilization, recorded in the oldest book of the Bible, which state simply and powerfully the reality of man.

“There is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding� (Job 32:8).

It is something great in man, Elihu conceives, that he is spirit, and, because he is, is capable of being inspired. He is not here speaking of Adam as he was in the primordial glory of Eden, nor yet of regenerated man in this wonderful age of the Holy Spirit; but, speaking thousands of years ago in the present tense, he magnifies man as being able to be inspired, just because he is spirit. And it is God, who likewise is spirit, that inspires him! Can we not see by this that the very being of man has a God-ward or divine side, being related constitutionally to Him. The testimony of scripture is incontrovertible that there is a spirit in man, or what is the same, the fact that we are, as being spirit, permeable and inspirable by the Almighty!

The word “spirit� means literally, breath, and denotes a quality of life because, in the case of the spirit in man, In that long ago beginning God “breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul� (Gen. 2:7). Now all the animals and beasts of the field are also called “living souls� in the creation
story in Genesis.

But there is a difference! Let the fact be imprinted indelibly upon our minds that none of these became a “living soul� by the inbreathing of God! God did not Himself breathe into the nostrils of cattle, lions, elephants, birds, fish, cockroaches, or any other creature. Their “breath of life� is of an inferior quality to that of man. The breath of life of the animal kingdom is merely the oxygen of our lower atmosphere. They are, therefore, a creation of God but are unrelated to God. The breath of life in man, however, originates out of the very spirit essence of God Himself — inbreathed — thus, when a man dies his body returns to the dust from whence it came, but his spirit returns to God who gave it! (Eccl. 12:7).

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Post #42

Post by Blastcat »

[Replying to post 39 by dio9]


[center]
Could you translate that into secular English?[/center]

dio9 wrote:
Soul is simply spirit and body, our mistake is becoming dominated by the needs wants and desires of the body, (dust of the earth) . Our true self is, as Genesis says, made of God.
Now, I understand what the word "body"means... I have one, you have one, all live humans "have" or "own" one of those.

Humans have bodies.
It would be quite silly to say that they don't.

What's that spirit you're talking about?

A ghost in the machine?
An imaginary being?

An invisible yet very powerful story book character?

Casper the friendly ghost?
It's quite nice that you might believe in a "spirit" thing.. but did you also intend to be understood?

____________

Question:


  • Just so secular people can follow, what do you mean by "spirit" and "body"?

____________



:)

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Post #43

Post by Blastcat »

[Replying to post 41 by Benoni]



[center]

God is a woo-woo
[/center]

Benoni wrote:
God is a spirit true believers worship the Father in spirit and truth.
God is a what now?

I have no idea what you mean by "spirit".
You seem to even use the word in two different ways in that bit of a sentence.

____________

Question:


  • Do you understand what a "spirit" is? If so, could you tell us what it IS you understand about it? Right now, you might as well be saying God is a "woo-woo" ... because I have no idea what you MEAN by "spirit". Please clarify.

____________



:)

dio9
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Post #44

Post by dio9 »

Benoni wrote:
dio9 wrote:
Benoni wrote: [Replying to tam]What about the Spirit of man which returns to God who gave it. We are all made in God's image and likeness which is spirit, Show me where God is a soul? Our soul was formed from the dust of the earth where are spirit was created in God's image and likeness. Context in genesis.
Soul is simply spirit and body, our mistake is becoming dominated by the needs wants and desires of the body, (dust of the earth) . Our true self is, as Genesis says, made of God.
Soul is the carnal mind for it was formed from the dust of the earth, Not created in God's image if you look at the context of Genesis. God is a spirit true believers worship the Father in spirit and truth. Deep within every man there is a secret sanctum where dwells the mysterious essence of his being. This inmost reality is that part of a man which separates him from every other living creature and makes him uniquely mankind. This deep hidden power is what it is of itself independent of any other part of the man’s complex nature. The deep-in human entity of which we speak is called in the scriptures the spirit of man. “For what man knoweth the things of man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God� (I Cor. 2:11). As

This truth denies that man is an earthly, physical being having a spirit and declares, rather, that he is a spirit having a physical body. That which makes a man a human being is not his body but his spirit, in which the image of God originally lay.

Most people on earth have forgotten their beginning. But the scripture is clear. “And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness…and the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created He him� (Gen. 1:26; 2:7; 1:28). What God actually did was that He imaged Himself in man. God imaged Himself in man by forming Himself in a man of earth. Thus man was created as a visible expression of the invisible God. Now that hasn’t changed!

What has changed is our perception of ourselves because of the fall. But before we discuss that, let us see just how it was that God imaged Himself in man, and how it is that man is a spiritual being having an earthly experience, instead of a physical being
having a spiritual experience.

Wonderful words were spoken at the very dawn of civilization, recorded in the oldest book of the Bible, which state simply and powerfully the reality of man.

“There is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding� (Job 32:8).

It is something great in man, Elihu conceives, that he is spirit, and, because he is, is capable of being inspired. He is not here speaking of Adam as he was in the primordial glory of Eden, nor yet of regenerated man in this wonderful age of the Holy Spirit; but, speaking thousands of years ago in the present tense, he magnifies man as being able to be inspired, just because he is spirit. And it is God, who likewise is spirit, that inspires him! Can we not see by this that the very being of man has a God-ward or divine side, being related constitutionally to Him. The testimony of scripture is incontrovertible that there is a spirit in man, or what is the same, the fact that we are, as being spirit, permeable and inspirable by the Almighty!

The word “spirit� means literally, breath, and denotes a quality of life because, in the case of the spirit in man, In that long ago beginning God “breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul� (Gen. 2:7). Now all the animals and beasts of the field are also called “living souls� in the creation
story in Genesis.

But there is a difference! Let the fact be imprinted indelibly upon our minds that none of these became a “living soul� by the inbreathing of God! God did not Himself breathe into the nostrils of cattle, lions, elephants, birds, fish, cockroaches, or any other creature. Their “breath of life� is of an inferior quality to that of man. The breath of life of the animal kingdom is merely the oxygen of our lower atmosphere. They are, therefore, a creation of God but are unrelated to God. The breath of life in man, however, originates out of the very spirit essence of God Himself — inbreathed — thus, when a man dies his body returns to the dust from whence it came, but his spirit returns to God who gave it! (Eccl. 12:7).
Ya this is pretty much what I am thinking. What you say" that he is a spirit having a physical body. That which makes a man a human being is not his body but his spirit, in which the image of God originally lay."
So the kingdom of heaven is simply establishing the proper dominion of spirit over body. Spirit and body are inseparable while we are alive , our religious challenge is establishing the proper relationship. Because of the fall the order was reversed. and the body's bag of angst dominated the spirit of God in Adam. Salvation then is not easy but is simply reestablishing the rule of spirit.

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Post #45

Post by marco »

Benoni wrote: [Replying to post 44 by dio9]

Agreed.......
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Post #46

Post by onewithhim »

Benoni wrote:
tam wrote: Peace to you!
"The living are conscious that they will die, but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all." (Eccles.9:5)

Being conscious of nothing does not mean that one has ceased to exist. It simply means that one is not conscious of anything. A person in a coma could exist, yet be conscious of nothing. A person under anesthesia can be conscious of nothing, and yet still exist.





On top of that:

The flesh counts for nothing. We are spirit within these vessels.

We are wearing the long garment of skin (this body with sin and death in it) that God fashioned for Adam and Eve after they ate and tried to cover their nakedness on their own. But we will be given the white robe (the new body with NO sin or death in it).



There is also the verse where Christ makes a distinction between the body and soul. He says that we should not fear the one who can kill the body, but cannot kill the soul. Fear instead the one that can destroy both body AND soul in gehenna.


Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell. Matthew 10:28


I am aware that soul is often (but not always) used to describe the whole person (or animal). But in the case above, Christ makes a distinction between body and the soul.


And of course John sees and hears the souls under the altar in Revelation:


When he opened the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those slaughtered because of the word of God and because of the witness they had given. They shouted with a loud voice, saying: “Until when, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, are you refraining from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth?� And a white robe was given to each of them, and they were told to rest a little while longer, until the number was filled of their fellow slaves and their brothers who were about to be killed as they had been. Rev 6:9-11




Peace to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy
This will pop you bubble. Jesus preached to the dead during the days of Noah. The Apostle Peter explained that "Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and “preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient�, when once the long-suffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is eight souls were saved by water." (I Pet.3:18-20). Obviously, since those disobedient spirits were from the days of Noah,
I disagree. Jesus did not "preach to the dead during the days of Noah." That is a real stretch! May I ask, is that something you deduced by yourself? Just curious. There in his first letter, Peter was speaking about what Jesus did after he was resurrected---after having been in his grave for three days.

"[Jesus was] put to death in the flesh, but quickened [made alive again] in spirit, in which [in the spirit, or AS a spirit] also going he preached to the spirits in prison..." Does this say that Jesus went anywhere while he was dead? No. He is merely said to be raised up in spirit, and then afterward preaching to spirits. What "spirits" were these? We have seen that "the dead are conscious of nothing," (Eccles.9:5) so it wasn't to dead PEOPLE that Jesus preached. These "spirits" were fallen angels, as can be seen by examining Genesis 6:1,2 and 2 Peter 2:4; also Jude 6.

In fact, it is explained in the next verse of I Peter 3 (verse 20) that these spirits had once been disobedient when the longsuffering God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, into which few, that is, 8 souls, were saved through water. Those "spirits" were disobedient in the days of Noah, yes, but Jesus spoke to them after his resurrection. (KJV, Darby)

These spirits (AKA fallen angels, AKA demons) were "in prison" (Tartarus, not Hades), which means "a fallen state, or, spiritual debasement," not hell-fire as the KJV suggests.

Spiritually debased, evil fallen angels. That is who Jesus spoke to after his resurrection, and not thousands of years ago before, during or after the flood of Noah.


.

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Post #47

Post by Benoni »

onewithhim wrote:
Benoni wrote:
tam wrote: Peace to you!
"The living are conscious that they will die, but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all." (Eccles.9:5)

Being conscious of nothing does not mean that one has ceased to exist. It simply means that one is not conscious of anything. A person in a coma could exist, yet be conscious of nothing. A person under anesthesia can be conscious of nothing, and yet still exist.





On top of that:

The flesh counts for nothing. We are spirit within these vessels.

We are wearing the long garment of skin (this body with sin and death in it) that God fashioned for Adam and Eve after they ate and tried to cover their nakedness on their own. But we will be given the white robe (the new body with NO sin or death in it).



There is also the verse where Christ makes a distinction between the body and soul. He says that we should not fear the one who can kill the body, but cannot kill the soul. Fear instead the one that can destroy both body AND soul in gehenna.


Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell. Matthew 10:28


I am aware that soul is often (but not always) used to describe the whole person (or animal). But in the case above, Christ makes a distinction between body and the soul.


And of course John sees and hears the souls under the altar in Revelation:


When he opened the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those slaughtered because of the word of God and because of the witness they had given. They shouted with a loud voice, saying: “Until when, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, are you refraining from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth?� And a white robe was given to each of them, and they were told to rest a little while longer, until the number was filled of their fellow slaves and their brothers who were about to be killed as they had been. Rev 6:9-11




Peace to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy
This will pop you bubble. Jesus preached to the dead during the days of Noah. The Apostle Peter explained that "Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and “preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient�, when once the long-suffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is eight souls were saved by water." (I Pet.3:18-20). Obviously, since those disobedient spirits were from the days of Noah,
I disagree. Jesus did not "preach to the dead during the days of Noah." That is a real stretch! May I ask, is that something you deduced by yourself? Just curious. There in his first letter, Peter was speaking about what Jesus did after he was resurrected---after having been in his grave for three days.

"[Jesus was] put to death in the flesh, but quickened [made alive again] in spirit, in which [in the spirit, or AS a spirit] also going he preached to the spirits in prison..." Does this say that Jesus went anywhere while he was dead? No. He is merely said to be raised up in spirit, and then afterward preaching to spirits. What "spirits" were these? We have seen that "the dead are conscious of nothing," (Eccles.9:5) so it wasn't to dead PEOPLE that Jesus preached. These "spirits" were fallen angels, as can be seen by examining Genesis 6:1,2 and 2 Peter 2:4; also Jude 6.

In fact, it is explained in the next verse of I Peter 3 (verse 20) that these spirits had once been disobedient when the longsuffering God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, into which few, that is, 8 souls, were saved through water. Those "spirits" were disobedient in the days of Noah, yes, but Jesus spoke to them after his resurrection. (KJV, Darby)

These spirits (AKA fallen angels, AKA demons) were "in prison" (Tartarus, not Hades), which means "a fallen state, or, spiritual debasement," not hell-fire as the KJV suggests.

Spiritually debased, evil fallen angels. That is who Jesus spoke to after his resurrection, and not thousands of years ago before, during or after the flood of Noah.


.
So let’s look at some facts not fiction or bias something you seem to be stretching. Spirits are people in the Bible according to the Bible not demons or angel which means messengers. There is no mention of demons or angels in this text to include the original language but the word spirits in prison is mentioned so let’s see who spirits are not according to my or your bias but God’s Word.

“For what man knoweth the things of man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God� (I Cor. 2:11).

Ecclesiastes 12: 7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

1 Corinthians 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

So according to God’s Word in these three verse man has a spirit and yes the men/spirits were disobedient during the time of Noah no mention of demons or angels anywhere I know of especially in this verse.


Tartarus is another stretch of your imagination for Tartarus was only mention one time in the NT and it has to do with demons and seeing no demons were here. The Greek word here means prison not one of the four words mistranslated to hell was used but prison anther stretch on your behalf.

Notice the word quicken was used in t this verse which means made alive. So Jesus made these spirits of men alive so he could preach to them. What He preach? The good news. What else could he say?

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Post #48

Post by onewithhim »

Benoni wrote:
onewithhim wrote:
Benoni wrote:
tam wrote: Peace to you!
"The living are conscious that they will die, but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all." (Eccles.9:5)

Being conscious of nothing does not mean that one has ceased to exist. It simply means that one is not conscious of anything. A person in a coma could exist, yet be conscious of nothing. A person under anesthesia can be conscious of nothing, and yet still exist.





On top of that:

The flesh counts for nothing. We are spirit within these vessels.

We are wearing the long garment of skin (this body with sin and death in it) that God fashioned for Adam and Eve after they ate and tried to cover their nakedness on their own. But we will be given the white robe (the new body with NO sin or death in it).



There is also the verse where Christ makes a distinction between the body and soul. He says that we should not fear the one who can kill the body, but cannot kill the soul. Fear instead the one that can destroy both body AND soul in gehenna.


Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell. Matthew 10:28


I am aware that soul is often (but not always) used to describe the whole person (or animal). But in the case above, Christ makes a distinction between body and the soul.


And of course John sees and hears the souls under the altar in Revelation:


When he opened the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those slaughtered because of the word of God and because of the witness they had given. They shouted with a loud voice, saying: “Until when, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, are you refraining from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth?� And a white robe was given to each of them, and they were told to rest a little while longer, until the number was filled of their fellow slaves and their brothers who were about to be killed as they had been. Rev 6:9-11




Peace to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy
This will pop you bubble. Jesus preached to the dead during the days of Noah. The Apostle Peter explained that "Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and “preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient�, when once the long-suffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is eight souls were saved by water." (I Pet.3:18-20). Obviously, since those disobedient spirits were from the days of Noah,
I disagree. Jesus did not "preach to the dead during the days of Noah." That is a real stretch! May I ask, is that something you deduced by yourself? Just curious. There in his first letter, Peter was speaking about what Jesus did after he was resurrected---after having been in his grave for three days.

"[Jesus was] put to death in the flesh, but quickened [made alive again] in spirit, in which [in the spirit, or AS a spirit] also going he preached to the spirits in prison..." Does this say that Jesus went anywhere while he was dead? No. He is merely said to be raised up in spirit, and then afterward preaching to spirits. What "spirits" were these? We have seen that "the dead are conscious of nothing," (Eccles.9:5) so it wasn't to dead PEOPLE that Jesus preached. These "spirits" were fallen angels, as can be seen by examining Genesis 6:1,2 and 2 Peter 2:4; also Jude 6.

In fact, it is explained in the next verse of I Peter 3 (verse 20) that these spirits had once been disobedient when the longsuffering God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, into which few, that is, 8 souls, were saved through water. Those "spirits" were disobedient in the days of Noah, yes, but Jesus spoke to them after his resurrection. (KJV, Darby)

These spirits (AKA fallen angels, AKA demons) were "in prison" (Tartarus, not Hades), which means "a fallen state, or, spiritual debasement," not hell-fire as the KJV suggests.

Spiritually debased, evil fallen angels. That is who Jesus spoke to after his resurrection, and not thousands of years ago before, during or after the flood of Noah.


.
So let’s look at some facts not fiction or bias something you seem to be stretching. Spirits are people in the Bible according to the Bible not demons or angel which means messengers. There is no mention of demons or angels in this text to include the original language but the word spirits in prison is mentioned so let’s see who spirits are not according to my or your bias but God’s Word.

“For what man knoweth the things of man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God� (I Cor. 2:11).

Ecclesiastes 12: 7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

1 Corinthians 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

So according to God’s Word in these three verse man has a spirit and yes the men/spirits were disobedient during the time of Noah no mention of demons or angels anywhere I know of especially in this verse.


Tartarus is another stretch of your imagination for Tartarus was only mention one time in the NT and it has to do with demons and seeing no demons were here. The Greek word here means prison not one of the four words mistranslated to hell was used but prison anther stretch on your behalf.

Notice the word quicken was used in t this verse which means made alive. So Jesus made these spirits of men alive so he could preach to them. What He preach? The good news. What else could he say?
Please let me ask: Has all reason and knowledge gone to the winds? I've got to get a cup of coffee!!!

This post, above, states that "spirits" are PEOPLE!!! WHERE in the Bible does it say this? I have NEVER seen any place in the Bible that teaches us that spirits are people, or the off-shoot of dead people.

I Corinthians 2:11 certainly doesn't indicate this. We have learned that people have their own IMPELLING MENTAL INCLINATION, the "force" that causes a person to show certain attitudes or emotions. So if we apply THAT understanding to I Corinth.2:11, we can see that it is man's own mental inclination that is involved, and that it causes a man to know things about himself.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 is quoted SO MUCH by people who try to prove that man has a spirit that departs at death and goes on living, consciously, in heaven. I submit that the "spirit" that is mentioned there is the BREATH OF LIFE that God had given that person and which kept that person alive. It need not be some ethereal copy of that person that has its own consciousness and keeps on living.

Benoni has apparently forgotten that a few chapters before that the verses say that "the dead are conscious of NOTHING." (Ecclesiastes 9:5) So we have an apparent conflict if we are to believe his version of what happens at death.

You say that there is no mention of fallen angels associated with I Peter 3:18-20. Apparently you did not look at the associated scriptures I cited, which connect the "spirits" in I Peter 3 with fallen angels (Genesis 6:1,2; 2 Peter 2:4; Jude 6) Explain to me how those verses do not back up what I am saying that they all refer to fallen angels, AKA demons.

You're right that "Tartarus" meant a "prison" or "debased spiritual state," but you don't, IMHO, understand just what is involved here. You prove that by saying that "Tartarus" isn't translated into "hell" anywhere. Aren't you aware that the King James Version uses "hell" instead of "Tartarus" or "prison"? (At 2 Peter 2:4)

Anyway, "Tartarus" does indeed refer to a prison-like state, and this describes "the angels that sinned" in the time of Noah. (2 Peter 2:4; I Peter 3:19,20)

The word "quickened" does not refer to those spirits that Jesus spoke to. It refers to JESUS HIMSELF. He was quickened, or, made alive again, and in his spirit body went, after his resurrection, to speak to the DEMONS in their state of spiritual darkness. This can be discerned if you look closely at I Peter 3:18-20, 2 Peter 2:4, Jude 6 and of course Genesis 6:1,2.

There is no indication of what Jesus said to the evil spirits that had been disobedient in the time of Noah. We can assume, with our educated guesses, that he simply wanted to face them after he had successfully conquered the world (John 16:33) and was brought back to life, and forcefully remind them of their ultimate destination. This interpretation is backed up by footnotes in the Life Application Study Bible/ New International Version:

"[Some say that] Christ went to [Tartarus] to proclaim his victory and final condemnation to the fallen angels imprisoned there since Noah's day (see 2 Peter 2:4)." (P.2107)



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Benoni
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Post #49

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I guess this is the way JW word by adding words like Jehovah where it do not belong and “evil� Spirits, DEMONS AND ANGELS. This is the difference between a spiritual person religious zealots that cannot seek truth outside of their broken cisterns. A spiritual person is open for truth where a religious person is a defender THEIR bias. What BONDAGE… Revelation of the Spirit means God reveals something new to you and you do not reject it.
Benoni has apparently forgotten that a few chapters before that the verses say that "the dead are conscious of NOTHING." (Ecclesiastes 9:5) So we have an apparent conflict if we are to believe his version of what happens at death.
Here is the verse,,, "Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and “preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient�, when once the long-suffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is eight souls were saved by water." (I Pet.3:18-20). Obviously, since those disobedient spirits were from the days of Noah

If you look at the text in 1 Peter you see “quickened by the Spirit� which I mentioned already no this does not means Jesus made a live. Jesus was resurrected before this happened so why would he need to be quickened AGAIN???
You say that there is no mention of fallen angels associated with I Peter 3:18-20. Apparently you did not look at the associated scriptures I cited, which connect the "spirits" in I Peter 3 with fallen angels (Genesis 6:1,2; 2 Peter 2:4; Jude 6) Explain to me how those verses do not back up what I am saying that they all refer to fallen angels, AKA demons.
And how do you connect fallen angel to this verse when there is absolutely no mention of fallen angel the word Spirit is used which I gave you three references verses that prove spirits and people are the same which you rejected. So are you telling me man does not have a spirit even though God’s Word tells us man has a spirit? And to add the word “evil� next to the word spirit just shows how desperate you are to prove this lie.
You're right that "Tartarus" meant a "prison" or "debased spiritual state," but you don't, IMHO, understand just what is involved here. You prove that by saying that "Tartarus" isn't translated into "hell" anywhere. Aren't you aware that the King James Version uses "hell" instead of "Tartarus" or "prison"? (At 2 Peter 2:4)
Yes Tartarus is a mistranslation. The word hell is a mistranslation and is not in the original text yes Tartarus is a place where demons go not people, besides the word is not in the 1 peter anther JW add on.
Anyway, "Tartarus" does indeed refer to a prison-like state, and this describes "the angels that sinned" in the time of Noah. (2 Peter 2:4; I Peter 3:19,20)


NO MENTION OF ANGEL OR DEMONS more stretching your JW bias imagination. The word Prison is used and you cannot add the word Tartarus when it is not in the language the word is “prison�.


The word "quickened" does not refer to those spirits that Jesus spoke to. It refers to JESUS HIMSELF. He was quickened, or, made alive again, and in his spirit body went, after his resurrection, to speak to the DEMONS in their state of spiritual darkness. This can be discerned if you look closely at I Peter 3:18-20, 2 Peter 2:4, Jude 6 and of course Genesis 6:1,2.

There is no indication of what Jesus said to the evil spirits that had been disobedient in the time of Noah. We can assume, with our educated guesses, that he simply wanted to face them after he had successfully conquered the world (John 16:33) and was brought back to life, and forcefully remind them of their ultimate destination. This interpretation is backed up by footnotes in the Life Application Study Bible/ New International Version:
You have to assume even though the facts are already there assuming is not how truth is established unless of course you are a JW.

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Post #50

Post by onewithhim »

Benoni wrote: I guess this is the way JW word by adding words like Jehovah where it do not belong and “evil� Spirits, DEMONS AND ANGELS. This is the difference between a spiritual person religious zealots that cannot seek truth outside of their broken cisterns. A spiritual person is open for truth where a religious person is a defender THEIR bias. What BONDAGE… Revelation of the Spirit means God reveals something new to you and you do not reject it.
Benoni has apparently forgotten that a few chapters before that the verses say that "the dead are conscious of NOTHING." (Ecclesiastes 9:5) So we have an apparent conflict if we are to believe his version of what happens at death.
Here is the verse,,, "Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and “preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient�, when once the long-suffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is eight souls were saved by water." (I Pet.3:18-20). Obviously, since those disobedient spirits were from the days of Noah

If you look at the text in 1 Peter you see “quickened by the Spirit� which I mentioned already no this does not means Jesus made a live. Jesus was resurrected before this happened so why would he need to be quickened AGAIN???
Will YOU look at that Scripture please? Where does it say that Jesus was resurrected BEFORE the quickening? Tell me.

It simply says that he was put to death in the flesh and then quickened (or, MADE ALIVE) by spirit. YOU are adding words to the text. YOUR interpretation can be easily dismantled, even if you don't want to believe that.

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