Jesus God's Son

[JehovahsWitness]

Luke 1:34-35New International Version (NIV)

“How will this be,� Mary asked the angel, “since I am a virgin?�

[GOD'S WORD® Translation: "I've never had sexual intercourse."]

The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God.

- The Angel Gabriel seemed to connect Jesus' being "the son of God" with the fact that his mother (Mary) was a virgin. Why in your opinion is that? What could be the connection?

- What in your opinion does the above scripture mean?



Note: The above is addressed primarily to those that believe the bible account; I am aware of the reading that when she said she was a virgin she meant she was not a virgin. or that she was lying and was in fact raped by a Roman soldier. I'm interested in those that have a different interpretation than this.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 74 by onewithhim]



[center]

A rather secular ( just a bit catty ) interpretation of a Bible verse.[/center]

I concede that the King James version of Romans 5 is somewhat numbing, and some other versions as well (what version do you have?), but perhaps the Living Bible would be easier to grasp.

"When Adam sinned, sin entered the entire human race. His sin spread death throughout the world, so everything began to grow old and die, for all sinned [having inherited it through the DNA they got from Adam]....So when their bodies died it was not for their own sins since they themselves had never disobeyed God's special law against eating the forbidden fruit, as Adam had. What a contrast between Adam and Christ who was yet to come! And what a difference between man's sin and God's forgiveness!

"For this one man, Adam, brought death to many through his sin. But this one man, Jesus Christ, brought forgiveness to many through God's mercy. Adam's one sin brought the penalty of death to many, while Christ freely takes away many sins and gives glorious life instead.

"The sin of this one man, Adam, caused death to be king over all, but all who will take God's gift of forgiveness and acquittal are kings of life because of this one man, Jesus Christ. Yes, Adam's sin brought punishment to all, but Christ's righteousness makes men right with God, so that they can live.

"Adam caused many to be sinners because he disobeyed God, and Christ caused many to be made acceptable to God because he obeyed."

The Living Bible includes DNA?
Woo...

I had asked you what your interpretation was of these verses, as, if I recall correctly, you had said that what JehovahsWitness had posted was merely her interpretation. (Re-check out post #60 and post #53, if you would.)

Yeah, an interpretation is just that.
I can interpret a verse.. anyone can do that.. it's child's play.

I don't know what it would demonstrate except that I have a wonderful imagination.
But it sure looks like the "Living Bible" translation has ALREADY interpreted it for me.

DNA?

Are you kidding me?
I'm pretty sure that's not in the original Greek versions.


But I'm always willing to respond to such a polite request, so here I go interpreting that Bible verse up above.

_____________


Interpreting Romans 5:12-19, Living Bible:


1. "When Adam sinned, sin entered the entire human race "

I take that to mean the Bible blames every bad thing on what Adam did. They call disobeying God a "sin".


2. " His sin spread death throughout the world, so everything began to grow old and die, for all sinned [having inherited it through the DNA they got from Adam]...."

I interpret that to mean sins pass down by way of DNA, kinda like a gene. We have a kind of gene for sin... It wasn't there before, God had to plant that in. But it's all Adam's fault, of course. God is perfectly blameless in all of this.


3."So when their bodies died it was not for their own sins since they themselves had never disobeyed God's special law against eating the forbidden fruit, as Adam had. "

I take that to mean people aren't actually GUILTY of Adams' sin... they just "inherit" it like they do their hair color. They have to pay for what Adam did, for some unknown reason. God's wrath, presumably.

Again, let's never forget that Adam is the ONLY guilty party.. not God.. not us.


4. " Adam's one sin brought the penalty of death to many, while Christ freely takes away many sins and gives glorious life instead."

I interpret that to mean that.. it's all Adam's fault. God JUST HAD TO penalize the rest of us.. because of that rule. And then... Christ comes around and presumably TAKES those sins... kinda. But only if one becomes a Christian. The rest aren't saved at all.. they still have to pay for ever.. again, because it's all Adam's fault. Not God, not Christ, not those who burn in hell... It's just that darn Adam. Why didn't he eat the fruit from another tree? Like a banana.


5."The sin of this one man, Adam, caused death to be king over all"

I interpret this to mean "let's not forget who to put the blame on, psst "ADAM" in case we forgot".


6." but all who will take God's gift of forgiveness and acquittal are kings of life because of this one man, Jesus Christ. "

I interpret this to mean.. only the Christians will be saved from a horrible fate.. the one caused by that dastardly Adam. God, through no fault of his own has NO CHOICE but to punish people who don't worship him and his son.


7."Yes, Adam's sin brought punishment to all, "

Another reminder because we might forget. It's Adam's fault. I'm beginning to not like him so much.. I wonder why?


8." but Christ's righteousness makes men right with God, so that they can live."


Another reminder that only the Christians will survive. Apparently, the people this verse was meant for were VERY forgetful.

9. "Adam caused many to be sinners because he disobeyed God, and Christ caused many to be made acceptable to God because he obeyed."

Now.. just in case they forgot again, this last sentence really drives it in.

______________


So, let's see what I got here...


It's all Adam's fault.. and Christ is the only way out.
Two completely unsubstantiated claims repeated over and over again.

I take that to be pretty lousy religious propaganda.
Maybe the people this was meant for were:

1. Very very gullible.
2. EXTREMELY forgetful.

I hope my interpretation was fun.
( was kinda meant to be )

I inserted the DNA comment in brackets, rather than have a whole discussion of it at the end, just so you could see how I look at it. I would have inserted the brackets and my take on it, no matter what version I was using.

And since you said to JW that HER interpretation was in her post about Romans 5, I then asked you how YOU would interpret it. Thanks for doing so.

BTW, God was not guilty of planting a "sin gene" in Adam. Jehovah simply took out the "living forever gene," whatever that would have been. To me it's all scientific. Do you have a problem with science?

You are right---it is Adam's fault. God did not penalize the rest of us.....it was Adam's action that plunged the rest of us into imperfection and death, because "something clean cannot come from something unclean." (Job 14:4)

Adam could've eaten another tree's fruit, but he wanted to show his contempt for Jehovah's sovereignty. Also, NO ONE has to die if they simply accept what Jesus did by giving up his human life (so that we could get OUR perfect physical bodies back and live forever, just like Adam was intended to be able to do).


Thank you for your comments. Not many people take the time (or even care) to read over the Scriptures and think about them much at all.


(The operative word is "think"....use the mind, attempting reason and logic....which is not done too often on these threads.)

you insert a lot of things is not God's Word good enough? So you are saying God lost and Adam and Satan won in the garden? That God was blindsided by Satan or little Adam? That the fall of all mankind God could not stop it from happing and it sure was not part of His plan? That little Adam's will is greater than God?

It was God not little Adam who caused the fall, it was God not little Adam who planned as well as set up Adam and Eve to sin; it is God not Little Adam and Eve who declares: You turn man to destruction, Against its will, all creation was subjected to God’s curse, the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, But that was not the result of its own choice. It was planned that way by the One who made it. Why would God create a savior before a sinner? For the Lamb was slain from the (FOUNDATION) of the earth if God did not know he was going to force Adam to fail… fall into sin and death. Who ordained Satan in the garden? (Satan has no power outside of the sovereign will of God.

God did NOT create a savior before a sinner. He planned for mankind's redemption AFTER Adam chose to rebel. "The world" was not created AFTER God decided to have Jesus come as a savior. God made that plan concerning Jesus after the rebellion by Adam and before the "founding of the world," or, the beginning of the world of mankind alienated from God. The founding of the world started with the existence of Cain, not the creation of the earth.

Unfortunately your understanding falls greatly short of the truth. But God is patient. I'm sure He will forgive your false claims against His reputation when you come to your senses.

[Elijah John]

Unfortunately your understanding falls greatly short of the truth. But God is patient. I'm sure He will forgive your false claims against His reputation when you come to your senses.

Moderator Comment

Please do not suggest that you know "the Truth" and others do not. That is preacing, not debate. Also, do not suggest that others need to "come to their senses".

This post would be considered to not comply with the guidelines on preaching. Please read through the guidelines and abide by them.


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[onewithhim]

Unfortunately your understanding falls greatly short of the truth. But God is patient. I'm sure He will forgive your false claims against His reputation when you come to your senses.

Moderator Comment

Please do not suggest that you know "the Truth" and others do not. That is preacing, not debate. Also, do not suggest that others need to "come to their senses".

This post would be considered to not comply with the guidelines on preaching. Please read through the guidelines and abide by them.


______________

Moderator comments do not count as a strike against any posters. They only serve as an acknowledgment that a post report has been received, but has not been judged to warrant a moderator warning against a particular poster. Any challenges or replies to moderator postings should be made via Private Message to avoid derailing topics.

My apologies. I guess I get too deeply into thought, often, and I thrust my thoughts onto paper! I will practice more restraint!