Book of Revelation

[Benoni]

Here is my point. If it the Book of Revelation is literal; line and verse please.

John was in spirit on the Lord ’s Day; He was looking a literal church; but a spiritual church.

Revelations 1:1
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass (not 2000 years); and he sent and signified (signs and symbols) it by his angel (messenger) unto his servant John:

John was in Spirit on the Lord’s Day; this makes the Revelation a spiritual book; not literal, not carnal, not prophetic literal. Revelation or the unveiling of Jesus Christ; it is the most spiritual Book in all the Bible; and I always put Genesis in second place. It is a book full of hidden spiritual symbolisms and for those who have the spiritual eyes or ears to see or hear it. No where does it say John was being literal in any sense.




This one little word is so reverent to the whole book Revelations; ‘signified� or signs and symbols. The Book Revelations can only be understood but as a very deep and awesome spiritual book by using signs and symbols that can only be found in the Bible. Where do you find these signs and symbols; all thought the Bible; written yes by the hands of deep spiritual men from many ages.

You speak over 800 OT references; great point. As natural men how can we understand what God is truly saying with His spiritual symbolism but by natural literal examples written in the very Word we are suppose to believe in? What a better place to open up this spiritual hidden book but by God’s Word w

[Benoni]

[Replying to Divine Insight]

Show me in scripture where carnal man has a freewill or choice? Than I will show you where it is not there and the Bible teaches to the contrary. What you are missing is yes there is a broad way to Christ though religion. But the narrow way is the spiritual way for those who have ears to hear.

[Benoni]

[Replying to post 10 by Divine Insight]

I am a Christian Universalist which means I see hell as a religious lie and the word condemn means to be judged. God's judgments are just.

[Divine Insight]

[Replying to post 10 by Divine Insight]

I am a Christian Universalist which means I see hell as a religious lie and the word condemn means to be judged. God's judgments are just.

If God's judgements are just, then no just person has anything to worry about. No need to even believe in religion at all, much less understand any supposedly "secret message" in the book of Revelation.

[Benoni]

[Replying to post 10 by Divine Insight]

I am a Christian Universalist which means I see hell as a religious lie and the word condemn means to be judged. God's judgments are just.

If God's judgements are just, then no just person has anything to worry about. No need to even believe in religion at all, much less understand any supposedly "secret message" in the book of Revelation.

True, If God does not call you you cannot come. I do not believe in religion. I believe in Jesus is Lord. The deep secret messages in revelation are awesome.

[Benoni]

The Book of Revelation
It has been said, there are five ways to interpret the Book:
1) Historically, it all happened a long time ago.
2) Present, in our now, but mostly negative, as people try to fit the events of their day into its pages, wondering if these certain happenings fulfill the judgment and doom they have been told is to come, to signify times end, though they hope they can escape from it all.
3) Futuristically, it will all happen out there some time.
4) Idealistically, poetically, using mental images from which to form your ideals and values, etc.
5) All of the above, practicing parts of each. Perhaps that is how many view it today. Some of it is viewed historically, some of it is viewed prophetically, and betimes men look to see if it verifies the time table that "the end is upon us.'' While occasionally passages are used to draw images and pictures that men apply to their day, as they interpret various points and fit them together.

[Divine Insight]

[Replying to post 10 by Divine Insight]

I am a Christian Universalist which means I see hell as a religious lie and the word condemn means to be judged. God's judgments are just.

If God's judgements are just, then no just person has anything to worry about. No need to even believe in religion at all, much less understand any supposedly "secret message" in the book of Revelation.

True, If God does not call you you cannot come. I do not believe in religion. I believe in Jesus is Lord. The deep secret messages in revelation are awesome.

To believe that Jesus is Lord is to believe in a religion. It's called Christianity.

[Divine Insight]

The Book of Revelation
It has been said, there are five ways to interpret the Book:
1) Historically, it all happened a long time ago.
2) Present, in our now, but mostly negative, as people try to fit the events of their day into its pages, wondering if these certain happenings fulfill the judgment and doom they have been told is to come, to signify times end, though they hope they can escape from it all.
3) Futuristically, it will all happen out there some time.
4) Idealistically, poetically, using mental images from which to form your ideals and values, etc.
5) All of the above, practicing parts of each. Perhaps that is how many view it today. Some of it is viewed historically, some of it is viewed prophetically, and betimes men look to see if it verifies the time table that "the end is upon us.'' While occasionally passages are used to draw images and pictures that men apply to their day, as they interpret various points and fit them together.

And all of it is only as meaningful as the source.

If the source is just the delusional imaginings of a man named John, then it has no more value than any other mythology or superstitious dreams.

If the source truly is a God, then that God cannot be concerned with rational intelligence or value any human life at all. He would be nothing more than an extremely deceitful trickster who has created a dogma that has even the most devout theists disagreeing with each other. Never mind the non-believers.

This would be a God that no one could trust to be straight-forward or clear about anything. Clearly even you cannot offer a clear meaning or interpretation of Revelation yet you appear to be an actual believer. And many believers have disagreed, argued, and questioned the meanings of this revelation, all the while proclaiming that it's supposed to be "coherent" to them.

[Benoni]

[Replying to Divine Insight] 30, 60 and 100 fold..... In the temple there are three areas for the priest. Does everyone enter the Holy of Holies or is it the High Priest only. Revelation 1:6
and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father—to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.

Revelation 5:10
You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God, and they will reign on the earth."

[Divine Insight]

[Replying to Divine Insight] 30, 60 and 100 fold..... In the temple there are three areas for the priest. Does everyone enter the Holy of Holies or is it the High Priest only. Revelation 1:6
and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father—to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.

Revelation 5:10
You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God, and they will reign on the earth."

If it's all just an imagined superstition then quoting from it isn't going to make it real.

We could quote passages from Greek mythology too. Does that make Greek mythology real?

Also why would this God be concerned with only "High Priests"? Especially in Christianity? In Christianity the High Priests were the lowest scum on the planet remember?

In fact, have you realized how silly the following quote attributed to Jesus truly is?

Matthew 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

And this is coming from a man who had proclaimed the scribes and Pharisees to be deserving of the greater damnation, and basically proclaimed them to be the scum of the earth for all intents and purposes. (see Matthew Chapter 23)

Matt.23

[13] But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
[14] Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.
[15] Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
[23] Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
[25] Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
[27] Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
[29] Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,

Think about that.

How easy would it then be to exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees?

Pretty darn easy right?

In fact, according to the Christian Gospels and what Jesus had to say about the scribes and Pharisees I can easily assess my righteousness to be leaps and bounds above the righteousness of the scribe and Pharisees.

So as far as I can see I would already be among the Holiest of the Holy by that standard.

So even looking at this as a fairy tale I can conclude that if this fairy tale were true I'd be in great shape.

In fact, I feel really bad for anyone who actually feels that they would deserve to be damned in Christianity. They must think pretty lowly of themselves.

[Benoni]

[Replying to Divine Insight] 30, 60 and 100 fold..... In the temple there are three areas for the priest. Does everyone enter the Holy of Holies or is it the High Priest only. Revelation 1:6
and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father—to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.

Revelation 5:10
You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God, and they will reign on the earth."

If it's all just an imagined superstition then quoting from it isn't going to make it real.

We could quote passages from Greek mythology too. Does that make Greek mythology real?

Also why would this God be concerned with only "High Priests"? Especially in Christianity? In Christianity the High Priests were the lowest scum on the planet remember?

In fact, have you realized how silly the following quote attributed to Jesus truly is?

Matthew 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

And this is coming from a man who had proclaimed the scribes and Pharisees to be deserving of the greater damnation, and basically proclaimed them to be the scum of the earth for all intents and purposes. (see Matthew Chapter 23)

Matt.23

[13] But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
[14] Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.
[15] Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
[23] Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
[25] Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
[27] Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
[29] Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,

Think about that.

How easy would it then be to exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees?

Pretty darn easy right?

In fact, according to the Christian Gospels and what Jesus had to say about the scribes and Pharisees I can easily assess my righteousness to be leaps and bounds above the righteousness of the scribe and Pharisees.

So as far as I can see I would already be among the Holiest of the Holy by that standard.

So even looking at this as a fairy tale I can conclude that if this fairy tale were true I'd be in great shape.

In fact, I feel really bad for anyone who actually feels that they would deserve to be damned in Christianity. They must think pretty lowly of themselves.

I am not speaking of the High priest in the Jewish religion I am speaking of MT Zion High Priest which is in the Book of Revelation as well as the Tabernacle of David in Acts 15. Do you even know what Mt Zion is symbolic of or what the Tabernacle of David is all about?