Russian Ban of Jehovah's Witnesses

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Russian Ban of Jehovah's Witnesses

Post #1

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Jehovah's Witneses in Russia a facing an imminent ban which would criminalize all of Jehovah's Witnessses in the country as "extremists". Jehovah's Witnesses worldwide are presently conducting a letter writing campaign to protest this injustice.
CLATIFICATION 2020: Since the ban of the Watchtower Society was eventually passed in April 2017 thread is specifically to discuss the actual charges mentioned in the State procesution papers and the subseqent arrests under the specific charges under Article 282.2 (1) of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation (RF Criminal Code) of EXTREMISM in Russia.
Image

What is your opinion of this move? Should Jehovah's Witnesses be banned from meeting to pray, read their bibles and sing spiritual songs together?

Do you think such a move could be envisioned elsewhere?

If you are non-religious, would you welcome such measures as a move to ultimately eliminate organized religion?



https://www.jw.org/en/news/releases/by- ... at-of-ban/
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:10 am, edited 6 times in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Post #81

Post by Monta »

Clownboat wrote:
Monta wrote: [Replying to post 71 by Clownboat]


"However, in Russia, the Orthodox Church is the dominate flavor of Christianity. Anyone that is not with them, would be against them and is thus worshiping the wrong god or version of said god. Some religions even treat his name as if it holds some sort of power while others focus mostly on worshiping the god."

I wonder how much yu know about Russia.
It has a huge Muslim population and many other Christian denominations.
I did not comment on Muslims in Russia nor did I claim that they don't have other Christian denominations.
Russian High Court did not make the ruling on behalf of the Orthodox Chuch, it was not a religious ruling. If it were then the Muslims also would be banned, therefore nothing to do with a 'god' as you put it.

"For the first time the demand for banning Jehovah’s Witnesses was considered in a Moscow district court in 1998. The prosecutor’s office of the Northern district of Moscow accused the Moscow community of Jehovah’s Witnesses of inciting religious discord, ruining families, forcing gravely ill patients to refuse to accept medical assistance and other violations."
More:
http://tass.com/world/939582

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Post #82

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Monta wrote: Russian High Court did not make the ruling on behalf of the Orthodox Chuch, it was not a religious ruling.

It's true, from what I can see the High Court is a secular not a religious court
JehovahsWitness wrote:
Monta wrote: [Replying to post 59 by JehovahsWitness]

Thanks for that article by a JW Administrator. I have been following the story and still have not found anything conclusive why is Russia singling out JW as extremist, a rather strong word. Interpreting the Bible differently having different views in other areas unless they preach hatred and violence against citizens or the govenment, does not fall under extrimism; imo.
I am looking for more information.

Hopefully, by posting the historical context, conclusions of Human Rights experts, as well as the commentaries from Lawyers, Professors, international diplomats, Religious leaders, news reports from all over the world, links to the court testimonies, documentation, actual statements made in court and a full summary procedures, I have provided at least a little information in this thread as to where you (and anyone interested) can start looking for more information.
Summary of the 6 days of Court procedures (imperfect translation "google-translate")
https://jw-russia.org/pages/17040614-132.html#0406
THE UNITED NATIONS
UN rights experts urge Russia to drop Jehovah’s Witness lawsuit which threatens religious freedom

GENEVA (4 April 2017) – Moves by the Russian Government to ban the activities of Jehovah’s Witnesses using a lawsuit brought under anti-extremism legislation have been condemned as “extremely worrying� by three United Nations human rights experts*. 

“This lawsuit is a threat not only to Jehovah’s Witnesses, but to individual freedom in general in the Russian Federation,� the experts said. 

“The use of counter-extremism legislation in this way to confine freedom of opinion, including religious belief, expression and association to that which is state-approved is unlawful and dangerous, and signals a dark future for all religious freedom in Russia,� they stressed. 
Read the full article HERE
http://www.ohchr.org/EN/NewsEvents/Page ... 9&LangID=E


THE HELSINKI COMMISSION
Helsinki Commission Chairman Sen. Roger Wicker (MS), Co-Chairman Rep. Chris Smith (NJ-04), and Commissioner Rep. Richard Hudson (NC-08), issued the following statements:

“It is wrong to apply flawed counterterrorism laws to those who seek to practice their faith,� said Chairman Wicker. “The Russian government is exploiting genuine threats of violent extremism to undermine what little religious freedom remains in that country. This distracts from real efforts to fight terrorism. I urge the Russian government to drop the case immediately.�
Read the full statement HERE
https://www.csce.gov/international-impa ... ding-legal


THE EUROPEAN COURT OF HUMAN RIGHTS
On June 26, 2014, the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) ruled in favor of Jehovah’s Witnesses and their right to worship without unlawful interference from the Russian authorities. In its unanimous judgment, the Court found that Russia violated Articles 5 (right to liberty and security) and 9 (freedom of thought, conscience, and religion) of the European Convention on Human Rights (Convention)
Read full and related judgement HERE
https://www.jw.org/en/news/legal/by-reg ... -religion/


THE EUROPEAN UNION
The decision of the Supreme Court of the Russian Federation to ban the activities of the Administrative Centre of Jehovah's Witnesses in Russia on grounds of "extremism" could make it possible to launch criminal prosecutions against Jehovah's Witnesses for mere acts of worship. Jehovah’s Witnesses, like all other religious groups, must be able to peacefully enjoy freedom of assembly without interference, as guaranteed by the Constitution of the Russian Federation as well as by Russia's international commitments and international human rights standards.
Read the full statement HERE
https://eeas.europa.eu/headquarters/hea ... -russia_en

HUMAN RIGHTS ORGANIZATIONS

MICHAEL GEORG LINK , Director of the OSCE Office for Democratic Institutions and Human Rights
Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE): “I urge the Russian authorities to ensure that rights to freedom of religion or belief, freedom of opinion and expression, freedom of peaceful assembly and association of individuals belonging to the Jehovah’s Witnesses community are upheld, in compliance with the obligations of the country under international human rights law and OSCE commitments,�
RACHEL DENBER, Deputy Europe and Central Asia director at Human Rights Watch.
“The Supreme Court’s ruling to shut down the Jehovah’s Witnesses in Russia is a terrible blow to freedom of religion and association in Russia [...] Jehovah’s Witnesses in Russia are now given the heartrending choice of either abandoning their faith or facing punishment for practicing it.�
Read full report HERE
https://www.hrw.org/news/2017/04/20/rus ... -witnesses

WORLD LEADERS & POLITICIANS



SCHOLARS & EXPERTS IN RELIGIOUS STUDIES

ROMAN LUNKIN - Russian religious studies scholar and leading research fellow of the Center for Religion and Society Studies at the Russian Academy of Sciences’ Institute of Europe
"After the Supreme Court ruling, Russia will appear in all reports on religious freedom as a country violating this freedom. Besides, this decision will be condemned by all Western countries. The Jehovah’s Witnesses ruling can become a symbol of violating the right to religious freedom. [...] "I am sure that, if Jehovah’s Witnesses files a petition with the European court, it will make a decision in favor of the believers,"
Read the full interview HERE
http://tass.com/politics/942578

ALEXANDER VERKHOVSKY, Director of the SOVA Center for Information and Analysis, which monitors extremism in Russia
I cannot imagine that anyone really thinks [Jehovah's Witnesses] are a threat, [...] but they are seen as a good target. They are pacifists, so they cannot be radicalized, no matter what you do to them. They can be used to send a message.�

As reported by the New York Times - Full article HERE
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/04/worl ... emist.html
Press releases & statements
http://www2.stetson.edu/~psteeves/relne ... ces.shtml

Historical context
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 597#862597
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Post #83

Post by Clownboat »

Monta wrote:
Clownboat wrote:
Monta wrote: [Replying to post 71 by Clownboat]


"However, in Russia, the Orthodox Church is the dominate flavor of Christianity. Anyone that is not with them, would be against them and is thus worshiping the wrong god or version of said god. Some religions even treat his name as if it holds some sort of power while others focus mostly on worshiping the god."

I wonder how much yu know about Russia.
It has a huge Muslim population and many other Christian denominations.
I did not comment on Muslims in Russia nor did I claim that they don't have other Christian denominations.
Russian High Court did not make the ruling on behalf of the Orthodox Chuch,
Are there no members of the Orthodox Church in the Russian High Court? We all know how religions love to try to stomp each other out now don't we?

Either way, I never claimed that the High Court made the ruling on behalf of the Orthodox Church in the first place, just pointed out that they are the dominate flavor.
You can give a man a fish and he will be fed for a day, or you can teach a man to pray for fish and he will starve to death.

I blame man for codifying those rules into a book which allowed superstitious people to perpetuate a barbaric practice. Rules that must be followed or face an invisible beings wrath. - KenRU

It is sad that in an age of freedom some people are enslaved by the nomads of old. - Marco

If you are unable to demonstrate that what you believe is true and you absolve yourself of the burden of proof, then what is the purpose of your arguments? - brunumb

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Post #84

Post by Monta »

MICHAEL GEORG LINK , Director of the OSCE Office for Democratic Institutions and Human Rights

Quote:
Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE): “I urge the Russian authorities to ensure that rights to freedom of religion or belief, freedom of opinion and expression, freedom of peaceful assembly and association of individuals belonging to the Jehovah’s Witnesses community are upheld, in compliance with the obligations of the country under international human rights law and OSCE commitments,�

'Freedom of religion or belief' -
freedom of opinion and expression
freedom of peaceful assembly and association' ... there was a time whrn the word 'religion' had aspecific meaning. Today anyone can make up something and call it his religion and have his opinion and expression. ISIS current example not neccessarily peaceful but certainly have an opinon and expression.

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Post #85

Post by JehovahsWitness »

[Replying to post 83 by Clownboat]

In any case it is a historical fact that both Stalin and Hitler banned Jehovah's Witnesses and that they were imprisoned exiled and executed under these regimes.

Link
http://euromaidanpress.com/2017/04/23/p ... #arvlbdata
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Post #86

Post by Clownboat »

JehovahsWitness wrote: [Replying to post 83 by Clownboat]

In any case it is a historical fact that both Stalin and Hitler banned Jehovah's Witnesses and that they were imprisoned exiled and executed under these regimes.

Link
http://euromaidanpress.com/2017/04/23/p ... #arvlbdata
IF the religion is all just a sham and people are being excluded from celebrating birthdays and other holidays, playing organized sports, getting blood transfusions (yes, they are allowed) and encouraged to mainly associate with just other Witnesses, then is what they are doing really such a bad thing?

If someone needs a religion, there are other options out there that are arguably less invasive and controlling.

You being a JW obviously have a dog in this fight. So for just a moment, consider how much you would protest if they were going after a group like the Heavens Gate for example. Perhaps you would be viewing this more from the perspective of hoping to free victims from a cult then as oppression against a religion?

I'm not saying I support what they are doing by the way.
You can give a man a fish and he will be fed for a day, or you can teach a man to pray for fish and he will starve to death.

I blame man for codifying those rules into a book which allowed superstitious people to perpetuate a barbaric practice. Rules that must be followed or face an invisible beings wrath. - KenRU

It is sad that in an age of freedom some people are enslaved by the nomads of old. - Marco

If you are unable to demonstrate that what you believe is true and you absolve yourself of the burden of proof, then what is the purpose of your arguments? - brunumb

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Post #87

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Clownboat wrote:I'm not saying I support what they are doing by the way.
I'm not suggesting in any way you are. As the arson, physical attacks and harrassement increase following the judgement we can only wait and see how far things will go.

Both Stalin and Hilter are both dead so we cannot consult with them as to why they beheaded, gassed and tortured JEHOVAH's WITNESSE S during the holocaust and social "purging" under the communist regime. If we could I have little doubt they would say their persecution was well deserved and they "had it coming".

All we can do in their honorable absence is examine the facts as Putin looks set to start down a similar pathat least as far as our religion is concerned.


THE UNITED NATIONS
UN rights experts urge Russia to drop Jehovah’s Witness lawsuit which threatens religious freedom

GENEVA (4 April 2017) – Moves by the Russian Government to ban the activities of Jehovah’s Witnesses using a lawsuit brought under anti-extremism legislation have been condemned as “extremely worrying� by three United Nations human rights experts*. 

“This lawsuit is a threat not only to Jehovah’s Witnesses, but to individual freedom in general in the Russian Federation,� the experts said. 

“The use of counter-extremism legislation in this way to confine freedom of opinion, including religious belief, expression and association to that which is state-approved is unlawful and dangerous, and signals a dark future for all religious freedom in Russia,� they stressed. 
Read the full article HERE
http://www.ohchr.org/EN/NewsEvents/Page ... 9&LangID=E


THE HELSINKI COMMISSION
Helsinki Commission Chairman Sen. Roger Wicker (MS), Co-Chairman Rep. Chris Smith (NJ-04), and Commissioner Rep. Richard Hudson (NC-08), issued the following statements:

“It is wrong to apply flawed counterterrorism laws to those who seek to practice their faith,� said Chairman Wicker. “The Russian government is exploiting genuine threats of violent extremism to undermine what little religious freedom remains in that country. This distracts from real efforts to fight terrorism. I urge the Russian government to drop the case immediately.�
Read the full statement HERE
https://www.csce.gov/international-impa ... ding-legal


THE EUROPEAN COURT OF HUMAN RIGHTS
On June 26, 2014, the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) ruled in favor of Jehovah’s Witnesses and their right to worship without unlawful interference from the Russian authorities. In its unanimous judgment, the Court found that Russia violated Articles 5 (right to liberty and security) and 9 (freedom of thought, conscience, and religion) of the European Convention on Human Rights (Convention)
Read full and related judgement HERE
https://www.jw.org/en/news/legal/by-reg ... -religion/


THE EUROPEAN UNION
The decision of the Supreme Court of the Russian Federation to ban the activities of the Administrative Centre of Jehovah's Witnesses in Russia on grounds of "extremism" could make it possible to launch criminal prosecutions against Jehovah's Witnesses for mere acts of worship. Jehovah’s Witnesses, like all other religious groups, must be able to peacefully enjoy freedom of assembly without interference, as guaranteed by the Constitution of the Russian Federation as well as by Russia's international commitments and international human rights standards.
Read the full statement HERE
https://eeas.europa.eu/headquarters/hea ... -russia_en

HUMAN RIGHTS ORGANIZATIONS

MICHAEL GEORG LINK , Director of the OSCE Office for Democratic Institutions and Human Rights
Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE): “I urge the Russian authorities to ensure that rights to freedom of religion or belief, freedom of opinion and expression, freedom of peaceful assembly and association of individuals belonging to the Jehovah’s Witnesses community are upheld, in compliance with the obligations of the country under international human rights law and OSCE commitments,�
RACHEL DENBER, Deputy Europe and Central Asia director at Human Rights Watch.
“The Supreme Court’s ruling to shut down the Jehovah’s Witnesses in Russia is a terrible blow to freedom of religion and association in Russia [...] Jehovah’s Witnesses in Russia are now given the heartrending choice of either abandoning their faith or facing punishment for practicing it.�
Read full report HERE
https://www.hrw.org/news/2017/04/20/rus ... -witnesses

WORLD LEADERS & POLITICIANS



SCHOLARS & EXPERTS IN RELIGIOUS STUDIES

ROMAN LUNKIN - Russian religious studies scholar and leading research fellow of the Center for Religion and Society Studies at the Russian Academy of Sciences’ Institute of Europe
"After the Supreme Court ruling, Russia will appear in all reports on religious freedom as a country violating this freedom. Besides, this decision will be condemned by all Western countries. The Jehovah’s Witnesses ruling can become a symbol of violating the right to religious freedom. [...] "I am sure that, if Jehovah’s Witnesses files a petition with the European court, it will make a decision in favor of the believers,"
Read the full interview HERE
http://tass.com/politics/942578

ALEXANDER VERKHOVSKY, Director of the SOVA Center for Information and Analysis, which monitors extremism in Russia
I cannot imagine that anyone really thinks [Jehovah's Witnesses] are a threat, [...] but they are seen as a good target. They are pacifists, so they cannot be radicalized, no matter what you do to them. They can be used to send a message.�

As reported by the New York Times - Full article HERE
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/04/worl ... emist.html
Press releases & statements
http://www2.stetson.edu/~psteeves/relne ... ces.shtml

Historical context
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 597#862597
[/quote][/quote]
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Post #88

Post by JehovahsWitness »

[Replying to post 86 by Clownboat]

The harrassement continues.

• Physical attacks, including one in Belgorod, just north of the Ukrainian border, where the perpetrator shouted “you have been banned� and repeatedly punched a Witness in the head, face and upper body.

• Arson, including an incident in Zheshart, in the northwest, where a building used for religious services was destroyed and a Molotov cocktail was found at the scene. Another attack occurred in Lustino, near Moscow, where the home of a Witness family burned to the ground.

• Disruption of religious services, such as one that took place in a private home in Pavlovskiy Posad, 42 miles from Moscow. Police officers in plainclothes told Witnesses that the court decision meant they could no longer gather and worship.
It looks as if the aim is to force the Witnesses completely underground.

FULL story in the USA Today
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/wor ... 102390226/


JW
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Post #89

Post by Clownboat »

JehovahsWitness wrote: [Replying to post 86 by Clownboat]

The harrassement continues.

• Physical attacks, including one in Belgorod, just north of the Ukrainian border, where the perpetrator shouted “you have been banned� and repeatedly punched a Witness in the head, face and upper body.

• Arson, including an incident in Zheshart, in the northwest, where a building used for religious services was destroyed and a Molotov cocktail was found at the scene. Another attack occurred in Lustino, near Moscow, where the home of a Witness family burned to the ground.

• Disruption of religious services, such as one that took place in a private home in Pavlovskiy Posad, 42 miles from Moscow. Police officers in plainclothes told Witnesses that the court decision meant they could no longer gather and worship.
It looks as if the aim is to force the Witnesses completely underground.

FULL story in the USA Today
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/wor ... 102390226/


JW
It sounds like communities are getting tired of Jehovah Witnesses.
I personally don't condone the use of violence.

Out of curiosity, what do you plan to do about?:
Slovakia passes law to BAN Islam from being registered as a religion
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/738 ... -sentiment
You can give a man a fish and he will be fed for a day, or you can teach a man to pray for fish and he will starve to death.

I blame man for codifying those rules into a book which allowed superstitious people to perpetuate a barbaric practice. Rules that must be followed or face an invisible beings wrath. - KenRU

It is sad that in an age of freedom some people are enslaved by the nomads of old. - Marco

If you are unable to demonstrate that what you believe is true and you absolve yourself of the burden of proof, then what is the purpose of your arguments? - brunumb

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Post #90

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Clownboat wrote:
JehovahsWitness wrote: [Replying to post 86 by Clownboat]

The harrassement continues.

• Physical attacks, including one in Belgorod, just north of the Ukrainian border, where the perpetrator shouted “you have been banned� and repeatedly punched a Witness in the head, face and upper body.

• Arson, including an incident in Zheshart, in the northwest, where a building used for religious services was destroyed and a Molotov cocktail was found at the scene. Another attack occurred in Lustino, near Moscow, where the home of a Witness family burned to the ground.

• Disruption of religious services, such as one that took place in a private home in Pavlovskiy Posad, 42 miles from Moscow. Police officers in plainclothes told Witnesses that the court decision meant they could no longer gather and worship.
It looks as if the aim is to force the Witnesses completely underground.

FULL story in the USA Today
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/wor ... 102390226/


JW
I personally don't condone the use of violence.
Indeed, there will be loss of life as there was in the past, that much seems to be a sad eventuality.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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