I am an atheist who cannot believe. Will I go to hell?

[The Transcended Omniverse]

I hear many people say that you go to hell if you don't believe in Christianity. That includes other religions out there who would make the same claim. I cannot make myself believe no matter what and I have researched all I could into everything I could possibly read into, and I just have to remain undecided. My undecided mindset is the result of a truly honest open mind and open heart. Will I go to hell since I could not believe? Furthermore, do I need to dedicate and serve my life to a God who I don't even believe in the first place in order to be saved from hell?

Please take note that I have tried everything I possibly could and I still cannot believe. There are many other people out there who have tried as well with a truly open mind and heart (for many years, btw) and they cannot believe either. As for those who did believe who claimed they finally realized the truth, I have no way of knowing if they did not keep an open mind like me and that it was their close mindedness that lead them to believe or not.

As for me, there is no way to convince me and I am officially done trying to seek out the Lord. I have no further interest and I am not going to waste my life for what might be years and years over something that might not even be true in the first place. So, why am I here then if nothing can convince me? It is because I am simply wondering if I would go to hell anyway (providing Christianity or other religions are real) over a disbelief that I was genuine and honest about.

I am a kind and respectful person, but I only live for my own good feelings. I have no interest in helping others. So, is that a good enough heart that would earn my way into heaven or not?

[tam]

Peace to you!

Please note:

It is not Christianity that we are supposed to believe in; it is Christ. One is a religion, and the other is a person. Christianity contains many false things - just the fact that there are many different denominations, some hating the others, many teaching conflicting things, should be enough to reveal that this religion teaches false things.

On the other hand, it is Christ who is the Truth. Christ is the One God said to listen to... and Christ said come to ME; listen to MY voice; follow ME. Not Christianity.


If you want to know them (Christ and God), Christ said to seek and keep seeking. Knock and the door will be opened. But Christ (and God) are not Christianity. Christ also said that if one knows HIM, then one knows God. That has nothing to do with knowing a religion.



On to your question:

I hope it is okay to repost something I posted around the time I first joined the forum. I'm not trying to flood anything with similar posts. Its just a similar question and so the answer is the same (and its long, lol). The question was 'would a good God send a decent atheist to hell, simply for not believing in him', and the OP wanted to know if there was scriptural support if the answer was no, a good God would not send a decent atheist to hell, simply for not believing in him.

It is from this thread (post viewtopic.php?t=22894&postdays=0&postor ... &start=870)


********

A Good God would not send to hell a decent person, simply for not believing in his son.

Setting aside for the moment what 'hell' is (a place of fiery torment or simply the grave), more than just Christians enter the Kingdom.

We can see this in the sheep and the goats parable, where the sheep the goats are neither of them Christian, but the sheep are still invited into the Kingdom:

"When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. he will put the sheep on his right hand and the goats on his left."

Christians, on the other hand, are taken up. When Christ returns, He gathers up those who belong to Him - His Bride.

For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 1Thessalonians 4:16,17

Christ Himself said, speaking of His return:

"I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left."


Back to the parable:

Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in. I needed clothes and you clothed me. I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'

Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?"

The King will reply, "I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me."


1 - The sheep are invited in on the basis of what they did to Christ's brothers. (not knowingly, for gain, but unknowingly - because they had to ask when they did good to Him, and a Christian would know that by doing good to His brothers, they are doing good to Him - even if just from reading this parable)

2 - People have objected to this understanding because the sheep are called righteous, and they think that only those who believe in Christ and God can be righteous. But this is untrue. There is a second witness to those people who will be called righteous based on what they DO.

Paul writes,

"For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature the things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them. This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through [Jesus] Christ, as my gospel declares."


It is the law of love that these sheep have written upon their hearts, and they do naturally the requirements of that law, and that is why they have also done good to even the least of Christ's brothers. Because they do that good - out of love - to ALL people.



They are not in Christ - so they do not rule as kings and priests with Christ in His Kingdom. But they are in love, have love as a covering, and they are also declared righteous, and invited into the Kingdom.


*****


As for Christians:

Christ gathers all of those who belong to Him - His Bride - to rule as kings and priests with Him for a thousand years in His Kingdom. Christians sit down upon thrones with Him.

You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God, and they will reign on the earth." Revelation 5:10

To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I was victorious and sat down with my Father on his throne. Revelation 3:21

I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years. Revelation 20:4-6


The simplest question to ask here is if all Christians (not all who call themselves Christians are Christians) are kings and priests of the Kingdom, then who are the subjects of that Kingdom?

**


Then there is also the resurrection of the dead, the second resurrection (after the thousand years, after Satan has been released, the battle has been won) The dead - everyone who has ever died - small and great - are resurrected. Some to judgment, and some to life. (revelation 20:11-15)

But Christians were already gathered to Christ in the first resurrection. So how can they be among the dead now being resurrected? Yet, these dead are judged according to their individual books (the deeds and words of their lives). Same as the sheep and the goats were judged. And any whose names are written in the lamb's book of life are also invited into the Kingdom.

Two resurrections. The first for Christians. The second for everyone else who has died, from the beginning.


****


On top of all of that, all Israel will be saved.

I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written: "The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob. And this is my covenant with them when I take away their sins." As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, for God's gifts and his call are irrevocable.

All Israel will not be kings and priests - as they would have been had they accepted their King when He came to them and called them. Some will be kings and priests (the remnant that God reserved for Himself... the 144 000 written about in Revelation), and any more than that number who accept Christ. But all will be saved, and invited into the Kingdom.


***

This will not be enough for all of those who have been convinced that Christians go to heaven, and everyone else goes to hell.

But at the very least, those who seek truth should be able to at least reason - except for the fear that religion has installed in man - that someone who has love upon their hearts, and does the requirements of that law, can be invited into the Kingdom. They are not going to wreak havoc in the Kingdom. They have proven that the law is upon their heart.

God is good. And just. And merciful. And love. We should probably stop putting our limitations on Him.


None need take my word for anything. Test against what is written. Test against love. To know the truth, ask Christ for the truth of this matter (so test against the light that is Christ). May you, if you wish them be given ears so as to be able to hear the truth from Him; as well as to hear the Spirit and the Bride say to you, "Come. Take the free gift of the water of Life."





Peace to you and to your household,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 1 by The Transcended Omniverse]

Depends. If there is a God, (and I believe that there is) and whether that God judges on the basis of the head or the heart.

The God I believe in knows peoples hearts and intentions. So, no doubt he knows of your seeking sincerity.

And I think that means a lot to Him. Disbelief is a matter of the head, not usually the heart.

There is even Biblical evidence that God judges on the basis of the heart.

Jesus was asked what is the greatest Commandment, he answered in two ways on two different occasions.

On one occasion, he said to "Love YHVH your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself."

On another occasion, he said to "treat others as you would like to be treated".

Both times he described these maxims as the "Law and the Prophets".

The Law and the Prophets express the will of God.

And Jesus said that it is not those who say "Lord, Lord" who will enter the Kingdom of Heaven, but rather those who do the will of the Father.

And the will of the Father is expressed in the Law and the Prophets. Which Jesus distills to it's essence with the Golden rule.

So, if one cannot love a God that one does not believe in, one can still love one's fellow humans by practicing the Golden Rule.

And Jesus says that too, is "the Law and the Prophets".

With Judaism, the obedience is more important that belief. There are quite a number of Jewish agnostics (as well as some Jewish atheists) and they are covered, (in their understanding) by their embrace of God's Law, if not God Himself. The thinking goes that such an embrace will eventually lead to belief anyway.

[The Transcended Omniverse]

[Replying to post 3 by Elijah John]

I am a kind and respectful person, but I only live for my own good feelings. I have no interest in helping others. So, is that a good enough heart that would earn my way into heaven or not?

[benchwarmer]

[Replying to post 1 by The Transcended Omniverse]

You're going to get as many answers as there are denominations and various religions. Given that I'm agnostic now, this may not help, but I'll throw my $0.02 in anyways

Just for the moment, let's assume there is a God and there is a Hell. Let's also assume that this God is 'fair' and 'just'.

Do you really believe that a God would send you to eternal torture simply because He couldn't get His message across using a medium (the Bible) which is rife with issues?

If God acts in this way, then we are all doomed anyway since you can easily see on this very board barely any 2 people agree on everything related to God. Do you think an all powerful, all knowing, all loving God would leave such an important thing in the hands of such a ridiculous method of information exchange?

I honestly believe a god would be much more impressed with a person who refuses to throw their intellectual honesty out the window and follow any particular religion simply because of the fear tactics and book thumping that are put forth.

We should all 'follow our hearts' and do the best we can. Surely an all powerful being can't ask for anything more. Picking a religion based on fear of punishment is not going to get you anywhere. You'll spend the rest of your life trying to decide which religion has the scariest punishments.

Good luck!

[onewithhim]

I hear many people say that you go to hell if you don't believe in Christianity. That includes other religions out there who would make the same claim. I cannot make myself believe no matter what and I have researched all I could into everything I could possibly read into, and I just have to remain undecided. My undecided mindset is the result of a truly honest open mind and open heart. Will I go to hell since I could not believe? Furthermore, do I need to dedicate and serve my life to a God who I don't even believe in the first place in order to be saved from hell?

Please take note that I have tried everything I possibly could and I still cannot believe. There are many other people out there who have tried as well with a truly open mind and heart (for many years, btw) and they cannot believe either. As for those who did believe who claimed they finally realized the truth, I have no way of knowing if they did not keep an open mind like me and that it was their close mindedness that lead them to believe or not.

As for me, there is no way to convince me and I am officially done trying to seek out the Lord. I have no further interest and I am not going to waste my life for what might be years and years over something that might not even be true in the first place. So, why am I here then if nothing can convince me? It is because I am simply wondering if I would go to hell anyway (providing Christianity or other religions are real) over a disbelief that I was genuine and honest about.

I am a kind and respectful person, but I only live for my own good feelings. I have no interest in helping others. So, is that a good enough heart that would earn my way into heaven or not?

First of all: There is no place in this universe that is reserved for "bad" people, to roast them, fully conscious, in a literal fire. It doesn't exist. Apparently that realization was not stumbled on by you in your searching for truth. A bit closer look at what the Bible really teaches would reveal what God is actually like, and a burning "hell" is not included in His repertoire. That is human thinking and very carnal teaching, far from what God intends for people (even truly wicked people).

Secondly, the Bible teaches that no one can earn their way to eternal life. That is why Yeshua Mashiach (Jesus Christ) took our places in death.

Thirdly, "heaven" is not our hope for eternal life, because God created us to live on the earth forever. Jesus and his Father have arranged things so that mankind can continue on where Adam messed up....to live on the earth in paradise conditions. Adam stopped the whole process of making the earth into a paradise when he rebelled. But that didn't cause God to change His mind about mankind living on the earth. That's where Jesus and his co-rulers come in. They will guide us in cleaning up the planet and making it into Paradise. God made the earth to be inhabited (Isaiah 45:18), and the Bible is full of descriptions of what it will be like to live on it when Jesus rules for a thousand years. (Revelation 20:4,6)

Fourth....If people are downright hard-hearted and just want to think of themselves, the Bible---not me---says that they will go into eternal "sleep." That is what the "lake of fire" symbolizes, and also the burning dump outside Jerusalem (Gehenna)....it symbolizes complete obliteration. No literal agonies or torture. No consciousness.



:sleep:

[OnceConvinced]

Will I go to hell since I could not believe?

Unfortunately there is no wiggle room given in the bible for disbelief, even honest disbelief. The only way to be cleansed of sin is through the death of Jesus Christ and to obtain that cleansing we must first recognise that Jesus was the lamb that was sacrificed to pay for our sins. We have to recognise that the only way to be saved is through him.

But to do that, we must first believe it! We have to believe in Jesus and we have to believe in God. Otherwise we wouldn't be genuine. We would just be PRETENDING we believe. Our decision to accept Christ must be genuine.

So for people like you and me, we are doomed according to the bible even though we have valid reasons for disbelief. Even though we can't possibly twist our own arms behind our backs and force ourselves to believe. Even though the evidence seems to be stacked up against God and Jesus. We are doomed and there's nothing we can do about it.

It's a ludicrous and unjust system really. We have to believe? Sorry, but like yourself, I can't possibly force myself to believe something I don't believe. Some might be able to, but my mind is not that fickle. It doesn't work that way for me. You would think that a just, loving and intelligent god would realise that and would not have such ridiculously absurd expectations.

Actually what we see in the bible is the portrayal of a god who really has no clue about the creatures he created. If he did, he would realise that not all humans can live by faith. Many of us require proof before we can believe. It seems that some humans minds are so fickle they can choose what they believe, but many of us do not have such fickle minds. I'm sure a god would understand that if he created us this way.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 1 by The Transcended Omniverse]

Rest assured the bible actually says the incorrigibly wicked will be condemned to eternal death (non-existence) NOT eternal torture.

"hell" in the bible is simply a word to describe symbolic grave, the place were all go whether righteous or wicked when they die.

JEHOVAH'S WITNESS





Further reading: The Lie That Made God Cruel
https://www.jw.org/en/publications/maga ... ruel-hell/



QUESTION: So where does the teaching of the hellfire come from? Many individual misinterpret illustrations or symbols in the bible, for example, revelation speaks about a "lake of fire" but this book (which also speaks about flying dragons and locust with heads like lions) is a symbolic book and the lake made of fire is not to be taken literally. Neither should we interpret illustrations Jesus gave which obviously were 'picture stories' rather than descriptions of literal places.

The teaching about eternal torment is in fact widespread and pagan in origin and while the bible does say that the penelty for sin is ultimately death, burning people forever for the sins they committed for 70 or 80 years is unjust and unloving and most importantly UNBIBLICAL.

Jeremiah 7: 21 "they have built the high places of To´pheth, which is in the valley of the son of Hin´nom, in order to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, a thing that I had not commanded and that had not come up into my heart.’

[OnceConvinced]

If you want to know them (Christ and God), Christ said to seek and keep seeking. Knock and the door will be opened.

Actually you misquote this scripture. It is:

"Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you."

It does not say "keep seeking".

I can attest to the fact that this doesn't work, even after 30-40 years of seeking. As I started to lose my faith I begged and begged God to help me. I sought and did not find. I knocked, knocked and knocked some more but the door was not opened.

question was 'would a good God send a decent atheist to hell, simply for not believing in him', and the OP wanted to know if there was scriptural support if the answer was no, a good God would not send a decent atheist to hell, simply for not believing in him.

The bible tells us that the only way to God is through Jesus. That we can only be cleansed through the blood of Jesus Christ. In fact John 3:16 says that "WHOSOEVER BELIEVES will not perish and have everlasting life. That is saying that whoever doesn't believe will not.

So quite clearly belief is required for salvation. So based on that even decent atheists have no chance of going to Heaven. So where does that leave them?

Now I am not saying that ONLY belief is required. Not at all, which is why there are other scriptures, like the ones you quoted where it is expected you would have done works. However good works alone are not enough to ensure ones salvation.

So that seems to leave an atheist with one of only two possible options. Either when they die they stay dead or they go to Hell. (It could be that permanent death is Hell).

[OnceConvinced]

First of all: There is no place in this universe that is reserved for "bad" people, to roast them, fully conscious, in a literal fire. It doesn't exist. Apparently that realization was not stumbled on by you in your searching for truth. A bit closer look at what the Bible really teaches would reveal what God is actually like, and a burning "hell" is not included in His repertoire. That is human thinking and very carnal teaching, far from what God intends for people (even truly wicked people).

This scripture here seems to very much paint a picture of a literal fire that humans will be cast into. Jesus won't even do his own dirty work. He'll have his angels do it for him:

Matthew 13:40-42: "Just as the weeds are separated out and burned, so it will be at the end of the world. I, the Son of Man, will send my angels, and they will remove from my Kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil, and they will throw them into the furnace and burn them. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

Secondly, the Bible teaches that no one can earn their way to eternal life. That is why Yeshua Mashiach (Jesus Christ) took our places in death.

It also tells us that faith without works is dead and that we will be judged by our actions:

James 2: 18-25
But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.� Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do. You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that–and shudder. You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? Was not our ancestor Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,� and he was called God's friend. You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone. In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction?

Matthew 16:2:
For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and WILL THEN REPAY EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS.

2 Corinthians 5:10:
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.


Mat 25:41-43 "Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.'

Thirdly, "heaven" is not our hope for eternal life, because God created us to live on the earth forever.

Not everyone is going to live forever. John 3:16 makes this quite clear. It says WHOEVER BELIEVES will have eternal life. So those who don't believe can't possibly have any eternal life of any kind, even if it's eternal suffering. Jesus words make it quite clear and surely trumps anything said in Revelations.

Perhaps I am misunderstanding you here and you aren't suggesting that we will all live forever, just that mankind will continue to exist forever, (even if a meteor comes and wipes us all out).

Fourth....If people are downright hard-hearted and just want to think of themselves, the Bible---not me---says that they will go into eternal "sleep." That is what the "lake of fire" symbolizes, and also the burning dump outside Jerusalem (Gehenna)....it symbolizes complete obliteration. No literal agonies or torture. No consciousness.

Actually the first scripture I quoted is not a symbolic thing. It is literal. If you read the whole parable in Matthew 13, we get the symbolic talk with the parables earlier on talking about the Parable of the Sower and the Tares. Then in vs 37 onwards Jesus goes on to explain the literal interpretation of these. The talk of burning all that do evil in a furnace is clearly a literal interpretation.