Jehovah's Witnesses...

[Elijah John]

This question is specifically for Jehovah's Witnesses, but anyone is welcome to chime in.

As an organization who understands and appreciates the name of God, Father Jehovah, why regard Paul at all? Someone who places Jesus name above all, even above the name of Father Jehovah?

The Watchtower Society proclaims the name of the LORD Jehovah, Paul? Never. Unless I am missing something.

He seems to equate "the Lord" with "Christ", not YHVH.

Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name

Phillippians 2.9

For debate...has Paul put Jesus name above every other name including YHVH's?

If it was God and not Paul who did this, where does YHVH say He would ever do this, putting the Messiah's name above His own?

If not, why doesn't Paul proclaim YHVH's name, only Jesus?

If Paul has put Jesus name above all, why should anyone who loves YHVH consider Paul's writings "Sacred Scripture"?

[Elijah John]

Let me put it this way, when someone sings or says "Praise His holy name" What is the first name that comes to mind, Jesus or Jehovah?

[onewithhim]

This question is specifically for Jehovah's Witnesses, but anyone is welcome to chime in.

As an organization who understands and appreciates the name of God, Father Jehovah, why regard Paul at all? Someone who places Jesus name above all, even above the name of Father Jehovah?

The Watchtower Society proclaims the name of the LORD Jehovah, Paul? Never. Unless I am missing something.

He seems to equate "the Lord" with "Christ", not YHVH.

Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name

Phillippians 2.9

For debate...has Paul put Jesus name above every other name including YHVH's?

If it was God and not Paul who did this, where does YHVH say He would ever do this, putting the Messiah's name above His own?

If not, why doesn't Paul proclaim YHVH's name, only Jesus?

If Paul has put Jesus name above all, why should anyone who loves YHVH consider Paul's writings "Sacred Scripture"?

I personally don't get it how people think that Paul was teaching anything in opposition to Jesus' teachings. Jesus said that he himself was THE way, and truth and life (John 14:6), and everyone had to get to the Father through him; Paul says the same thing (I Timothy 2:5).

Paul wrote that the Father gave Jesus the name above all other names (Phil.2:9). It goes without saying that the Father who GAVE Jesus an exalted position and name would be, as the GIVER, a higher authority than Jesus. Of course Jehovah's name would be the highest of all---that should not have to be explained, therefore Paul doesn't add that in at this particular point.

He did, though, in I Corinthians chapter 15 when explaining that even though "all things have been subjected under his [Christ's] feet," that is with the exception of Jehovah Himself.....the One who subjected all things to Jesus. (Sometimes you have to explain the simplest, most obvious things....like take off the outer wrapper before you put the Pop Tart in the toaster. Duh.) See I Corinthians 15:24-28. Paul ends up that explanation by saying that Christ will be in subjection to the Father when he hands back the Kingdom to Jehovah Himself, "so that God may be all things to everyone." Doesn't this show that Paul places the Father, Jehovah, at the very top of the seniority list?

After all, Paul mentions the Father, God, in every one of his letters, several times. Jehovah is always God and is always in the fore-front. He is always the "head" of Christ. (I Corinth.11:3)

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 3 by onewithhim]

Granted, Paul gives lip service to the Father. But the name he proclaims is "Jesus" and not Jehovah.

Also, why do you believe that God gave Jesus a name above every other? Because Paul said so? If YHVH ever said that He Himself would put the Messiah's name above His own, I sure cannot find it, can you?

The fact that Paul is doing something unauthorized here, (putting Jesus name above God's) should set off alarms, it seems to me. Alarms for anyone who loves YHVH, the only true God.

Also, if Jesus name is above every human name, shouldn't the Messiah's name be a unique name? But it's not, it is shared with Joshua, for one.

[onewithhim]

Let me put it this way, when someone sings or says "Praise His holy name" What is the first name that comes to mind, Jesus or Jehovah?

To most people it is Jesus. Everyone got confused when translators took Jehovah's name right out of the Bible and substituted "LORD."

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 3 by onewithhim]

Granted, Paul gives lip service to the Father. But the name he proclaims is "Jesus" and not Jehovah.

Also, why do you believe that God gave Jesus a name above every other? Because Paul said so? If YHVH ever said that He Himself would put the Messiah's name above His own, I sure cannot find it, can you?

The fact that Paul is doing something unauthorized here, (putting Jesus name above God's) should set off alarms, it seems to me. Alarms for anyone who loves YHVH, the only true God.

Also, if Jesus name is above every human name, shouldn't the Messiah's name be a unique name? But it's not, it is shared with Joshua, for one.

In fact, Jehovah has REPEATEDLY said that there is NO ONE like him. He is God and He is THE MOST HIGH. (Psalm 83:18, KJV)

Paul didn't say that Jesus' name was higher than Jehovah's. I said what I meant to be an explanation of why he would NOT say that.

Jesus' name is "above every human name" in the sense that HE is above every human. He is above everyone else in the universe except his Father, Jehovah, Whom he calls "MY GOD." (John 20:17; Revelation 3:12)


.

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 3 by onewithhim]

Granted, Paul gives lip service to the Father. But the name he proclaims is "Jesus" and not Jehovah.

Also, why do you believe that God gave Jesus a name above every other? Because Paul said so? If YHVH ever said that He Himself would put the Messiah's name above His own, I sure cannot find it, can you?

The fact that Paul is doing something unauthorized here, (putting Jesus name above God's) should set off alarms, it seems to me. Alarms for anyone who loves YHVH, the only true God.

Also, if Jesus name is above every human name, shouldn't the Messiah's name be a unique name? But it's not, it is shared with Joshua, for one.

In fact, Jehovah has REPEATEDLY said that there is NO ONE like him. He is God and He is THE MOST HIGH. (Psalm 83:18, KJV)

Paul didn't say that Jesus' name was higher than Jehovah's. I said what I meant to be an explanation of why he would NOT say that.

Jesus' name is "above every human name" in the sense that HE is above every human. He is above everyone else in the universe except his Father, Jehovah, Whom he calls "MY GOD." (John 20:17; Revelation 3:12)

Good points, but why do you suppose that Paul did not proclaim YHVH's name? He seemed to have no trouble proclaiming "Christ" or prolaiming Jesus name.

He seems to have done this instead of proclaiming YHVH's name.

Isn't that too, in effect, putting Jesus name above Jehovah's? Even though he could well have meant "above every human name.

He could have been clearer and said "except YHVH's". Perhaps the average Jew listening would have understood that. But YHVH's Name was supposed to have been proclaimed to the Nations.

Instead of God, a man is preached...in effect. Paul is all about "Christ".

So Paul proclaimed Jesus' name to the Nations, not YHVH's.

The effect? Trinitarianism, and those who write hymns "Praising his holy name" more often than not mean "Praise Jesus' Holy Name", not YHVH's.

And when they sing "Hallelujah, folks often have no clue that the word of praise refers to YHVH, not Jesus."Praise Yah" not "Praise Jesus". But they use it anyway for Jesus.

Jews understand this, and JWs but not most who call themselves "Christian".

[tam]

Paul is all about "Christ".

Paul is supposed to be bearing witness to Christ. (as are the scriptures bearing witness to Christ). Which is what the apostles (and disciples) are supposed to be. As Christ said:


“It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by His own authority. But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you, and you will be My witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.� Acts 1:7,8


We are supposed to be bearing witness to Christ. He is, Himself, the True and Faithful Witness (of God).

These are the words of the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the ruler of God's creation. Rev 3:14


Christ is the One who reveals and makes known His Father.

(Although Paul did not proclaim the name "Jesus". "Jesus" is not the name of Christ.)


Peace to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ Jaheshua,
tammy

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 1 by Elijah John]

As Jehovah's Witnesses we do not adhere to the interpretation that Paul's words put Jesus above JEHOVAH. We don't believe that they do.

We have regard for Paul because we believe the entire bible is inspired of God and Paul was a bible writer, thus for us when we read the words of Paul we are in fact reading what Almighty God Jehovah is conveying through the Apostle Paul. We don't have a "fragmented" approach to the bible based on the personalities of the writers, we view the entire book as the word of God. If you go to our meetings, while we will often refer to Paul and his life and work, when we read his writings more often than not rather than hearing "Let's hear what Paul said", you'll hear "Let's read what [strike]Paul[/strike] God tells us in Ephesians" or "Jehovah instructs us in Corinthians X, Y, Z" or quite simple "God tells us in Hebrews ..."


To reject Paul's writings as recorded in scripture is to reject God's words. To reject God's words is to reject God.

[JehovahsWitness]

Let me put it this way, when someone sings or says "Praise His holy name" What is the first name that comes to mind, Jesus or Jehovah?

To most people it is Jesus. Everyone got confused when translators took Jehovah's name right out of the Bible and substituted "LORD."

Yes, that's the first thing that came to my mind, reader confusion. When the translators removed the Divine Name from the Christian Greek Scriptures as evidence indicates they did, they obscured Jehovah's identity and faciliated an unbalanced emphasis on Jesus. Even Jehovah's Witnesses in the early days were guilty of an over emphasis on Jesus and we had to redress that imbalance.

JW