A better way to convert sinners

[The Transcended Omniverse]

Instead of having a god who punishes sinners and condemns them to hell which is sure to stir up hate and rejection of his fellow human creations, then why not allow these sinners to live in selfish sin all they want to until they eventually grow tired of it and change out of boredom? That would be a much better solution here then forcefully imposing upon these people's ways of living. I say, allow them to be hedonistic all they want and let them have all the "me" time all they want until they eventually grow tired of it and decide to finally serve god, help others, etc. Therefore, why can't this better solution be implemented? Why must sinners be punished and condemned?

If a parent punishes a child time and time again and this child never learns and is still rebellious, then the best thing to do here would be to give up on that child and leave that child to his/her own selfish lifestyle until one day the child grows tired of it and decides to change for the better.

[onewithhim]

Two good questions for Transcended Omniverse. Will you answer, Mr. Omniverse?

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 18 by onewithhim]



[center]Perfect, or less than perfect god?[/center]

Your view of God and the existence of humans is somewhat bizarre, as I think any talk of God creating people to be either for Him or against Him is bizarre. I do not believe for an instant that God would create the human experience to be people going through the motions of living but powerless to change their lives because they were already picked to be acceptable or not---a bunch of robots. What would be the purpose of that?

You make a great point.

But USUALLY God is said to be omniscient.. knows everything.
If YOU believe that, then God doesn't GET any surprise birthday parties, because he knows EVERYTHING in advance already.

God could only ACT surprised.

A god who knows everything would know WHO and HOW and WHY and WHEN people would decide to be good little boys and girls or not.

IN advance.
Even before they were born.

Even WAY before they knew it themselves, or imagined that they ever had a CHOICE.


Yeah, it's a bizarre idea, alright.
Unless, of course YOU believe that God doesn't actually know everything.

Then he would be a less than perfect god.. but that all depends what characteristics you want to heap at his feet.

Good luck deciding.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 18 by onewithhim]



[center]Perfect, or less than perfect god?[/center]

Your view of God and the existence of humans is somewhat bizarre, as I think any talk of God creating people to be either for Him or against Him is bizarre. I do not believe for an instant that God would create the human experience to be people going through the motions of living but powerless to change their lives because they were already picked to be acceptable or not---a bunch of robots. What would be the purpose of that?

You make a great point.

But USUALLY God is said to be omniscient.. knows everything.
If YOU believe that, then God doesn't GET any surprise birthday parties, because he knows EVERYTHING in advance already.

I have posted many times on this forum that I believe that God CAN know everything, but that he chooses to NOT know everything on occasion. Really, how boring it would be for him to know everything that would ever happen. I don't accept that narrow-minded view at all.

To me, God does not show any imperfection by choosing to not know everything. He chooses. If he didn't choose to not know, he could be called an imperfect God, but he chooses it.....so that he will not be insincere when he offers all humans eternal life if they will just obey.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 23 by onewithhim]

I have posted many times on this forum that I believe that God CAN know everything, but that he chooses to NOT know everything on occasion.

There are none so blind as those who will not see

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 23 by onewithhim]

I have posted many times on this forum that I believe that God CAN know everything, but that he chooses to NOT know everything on occasion.

There are none so blind as those who will not see

I agree.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 25 by onewithhim]


[center]God will not see.. there are none so blind[/center]

I have posted many times on this forum that I believe that God CAN know everything, but that he chooses to NOT know everything on occasion.

There are none so blind as those who will not see

I agree.

You do?
You have just agreed that God is willfully blind.

I'm a bit surprised, to tell you the truth.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 26 by Blastcat]

No, I thought you were referring to me.


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[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 27 by onewithhim]

[center]A willfully blind god[/center]

No, I thought you were referring to me.

OF COURSE NOT.

I'm in enough hot water with the moderating team already.
So, no.

I said that because you seem to believe that your god sometimes doesn't WANT to "see". None so blind....

This is what you wrote:

"I have posted many times on this forum that I believe that God CAN know everything, but that he chooses to NOT know everything on occasion. "

You are saying that your god at times will not see. None are so blind.
By your reckoning, your god is willfully ignorant.

I am surprised that a "God" believer would say that God intentionally blinds himself.

[bjs]

Instead of having a god who punishes sinners and condemns them to hell which is sure to stir up hate and rejection of his fellow human creations, then why not allow these sinners to live in selfish sin all they want to until they eventually grow tired of it and change out of boredom? That would be a much better solution here then forcefully imposing upon these people's ways of living. I say, allow them to be hedonistic all they want and let them have all the "me" time all they want until they eventually grow tired of it and decide to finally serve god, help others, etc. Therefore, why can't this better solution be implemented? Why must sinners be punished and condemned?

If a parent punishes a child time and time again and this child never learns and is still rebellious, then the best thing to do here would be to give up on that child and leave that child to his/her own selfish lifestyle until one day the child grows tired of it and decides to change for the better.

Interestingly, there have been many Christian theologians who argued that this is exactly what God has done. That is, heaven is where people say to God, “Your will be done,� while hell is where God says to people, “Your will be done.�

Hell is where God has, so to speak, given up on people. They are free to be as selfish and self-absorbed as they desire.

The only real disagreement is with the idea that people will eventually grow bored of selfishness. From my own experience, that does not seem realistic.

Selfishness appears to breed greater and deeper selfishness. It is only when selfishness results in suffering for the selfish person that change comes about. You can call the suffering the condemnation of God or the way the world works or bad luck or what have you, but I have seen no hint that people will tire of selfishness as long as it keeps working out for them.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 27 by onewithhim]

[center]A willfully blind god[/center]

No, I thought you were referring to me.

OF COURSE NOT.

I'm in enough hot water with the moderating team already.
So, no.

I said that because you seem to believe that your god sometimes doesn't WANT to "see". None so blind....

This is what you wrote:

"I have posted many times on this forum that I believe that God CAN know everything, but that he chooses to NOT know everything on occasion. "

You are saying that your god at times will not see. None are so blind.
By your reckoning, your god is willfully ignorant.

I am surprised that a "God" believer would say that God intentionally blinds himself.

Why? How else could He offer humans a GENUINE choice of what they want to do? He would always have been faking when he said he set before humans a choice, if he already knew what they were going to do. He would want to be truthful....not dishonest.


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